High speed handling

[Chris A]

Hi all,

When I very rarely, 😌, drive my 13/60 at around 80 mph the steering feels very light almost as if the front is lifting. This might be normal for the model I don't know, I would just like the views of the collected knowledge on the forum.

For info the tyres are 155/80 at 25 psi front & 26 psi rear.

Something else but I doubt it has an effect (famous last words) at some point in the past the front valance has been replaced by one in fibre glass ant the "letterbox" slot above the number plate hasn't been cut out.

Thanks for the replies when you have the time

[poppyman]

Hi Chris, it will feel light  at 80mph, my Dolomite 1850 does and that is a lot heavier car. So yes i would say normal.

Tony. 

[Pete Lewis]

more likely a toe in problem you  need to check front and the rear  

two straight  planks and a  tape measure will give you a clue 

see other posts about toe in the simple way   its easy and  also  static  loading for any geometry checks 

Pete

[Chris A]

Thanks guys. Hum, two different views - well I went and looked at the treads on the tyres. After 5500 miles all 4 look to be wearing slightly faster on the outside. does this help the diagnostics. Looked up tyre wear on the inter thingy and one of the causes, the one I prefer as easiest (maybe) to do something about, ' enthusiastic cornering'. Guilty(ish)!

[Colin Lindsay]

4 hours ago, Chris A said:

Hi all,

When I very rarely, 😌, drive my 13/60 at around 80 mph the steering feels very light almost as if the front is lifting. This might be normal for the model I don't know

Heralds were never designed for high speed, so handling probably won't be Formula 1 standard, or even Spitfire standard...

[Chris A]

47 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Heralds were never designed for high speed, so handling probably won't be Formula 1 standard, or even Spitfire standard...

Yes, that I could accept they supposed to be nippy enough to compete with similar cars at the time not sporty, but it is fun to drive 'spiritedly' - gives drivers of moderns a shock too 😁

[NonMember]

While Pete is right that poor tracking is very common and often the cause of odd handling, a correctly adjusted Herald that feels right up to about 60 will still get rather light at 80 because the front tends to lift a little. So Tony's right, it's normal.

[Nick Jones]

Don’t recall it being an issue on my Herald and that used to spend quite a lot of time on the motorway at speed. It did have wider wheels and a lowered rear end though. Vitesse is fine to 100 but does get a bit sketchy above that..... everything flaps and shakes......

[JohnD]

The time I did have instability at speed in a Vitesse was after rebuilding the rear suspension, and forgetting to check and reset the toe-in.   So I agree with Pete.

The symptoms were exaggerated by acceleration/decceleration, which if you have noticed points that way.     Worn bushes on the radius arms would do the same - not in my case as they were by then spherical jointed.

[Mjit]

Having the wheel geometry checked/corrected is never going to do any harm, well other than to your wallet.

Worth seeking out recommendations of where to get it done though as having all the kit doesn't always mean the operator knows how to use it.  Also worth picking up some chassis shims and taking them with you as most places won't be set up to knock some up these days.

[mishmosh]

Generally normal  but as mentioned  it can be slightly improved. The valance won’t make any difference however.  These cars will float a bit at speed. 

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, NonMember said:

While Pete is right that poor tracking is very common and often the cause of odd handling, a correctly adjusted Herald that feels right up to about 60 will still get rather light at 80 because the front tends to lift a little. So Tony's right, it's normal.

Thanks for this.

I am now wondering about the tyre wear, maybe I should just slow down a bit on the bendy sections, of which there are LOTS around here.

[poppyman]

47 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Thanks for this.

I am now wondering about the tyre wear, maybe I should just slow down a bit on the bendy sections, of which there are LOTS around here.

How often do you do "U" turns or use full lock Chris? I had this happen to a customer and we were baffled until he arrived home in his car and did a "U" turn on full lock. This was going on two or three times a day. After being told to do three point turns instead.... Problem vanished.

Tony.

 

[Pete Lewis]

tyre scrub on the outer edges is too much toe in   on the inner its toe out   

camber does not chew tread off , it will but takes for ever ,  tracking drags the tyre sideways , can be 100s of ft in a mile ,,goodbye tread 

cornering will obviously wear outer more than  straight  lines   but excess toe in on turns will remove rubber , correcting errors does not replace it 

Pete

[Chris A]

I have given you replies some thought hence the delay in saying thanks. I'm a slow thinker.

So, if toe in/out is the problem it must be the same on all 4 wheels as the wear is the same. No work has been done to suspension or steering etc since I got the car in 2015.

I replaced the tyres the car came with in 2016 as I didn't like the profiles (155/70). The paperwork I have from th PO shows them being fitted not long before the MOT, not much annual mileage being done in 2013. I have no recollection of there being any odd wear pattern, these tyres would have covered 5000 ish miles, like my current set.

I'm inclined to go with 'reduce the full lock' turning for the present and keep an eye on them.

Finding anyone here in rural France who would even be willing to look at it won't be easy, although I do know of a couple of local garages who are into old cars - one is even a collector (if old French and MGs count).

Thanks again guys.

Here's to the next time.

Unfortunately I won't be putting many miles on it for the next 3 weeks as I'm off for my annual cure. No not alcohol (thankfully) but thermal.

 

[Pete Lewis]

rear toe is just  as important as front toe , most cars i come across are way out 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

My GT6 wheels go way up into the wheelarches on reverse; I've been told this is due to rear toe being out; but there's no sign of excessive tyre wear on any part of the tyre. If it passes MOT tomorrow I'll get it checked on the way back.

[Mathew]

On 15/07/2020 at 14:25, Colin Lindsay said:

Heralds were never designed for high speed, so handling probably won't be Formula 1 standard, or even Spitfire standard...

I find that my spitfire that I tuned was steady to 105 but my puma one gets scary light about 120 but that does need wheel alignment 🤔😀.

[Pete Lewis]

being a bit of a dinosaur should you not have the geometry set correctly before you power off to 120mph ???

 

 

[Mathew]

On 28/07/2020 at 10:19, Pete Lewis said:

being a bit of a dinosaur should you not have the geometry set correctly before you power off to 120mph ???

 

 

🤔🤕😂😂😂😂

Lead right foot syndrome. Runs fine at normal speed, when a porshe pulls out on you and you swerve round to overtake , they then put there foot down to try and stop you. You look down when things get light and realize why. Slow and let them catch up! All in a matter of seconds. Will get somewhere to sort out once the madness is over. Its as quick acceleration as my tuned mgf vv , if not maybe a little faster. Not as quick as zx6 I had. Can't wait to take to santa pod to see how quick. Not until setup though!😀

[Pete Lewis]

if the front and  rear  toe is set to spec you may get some extra MPH but do respect the national limit . 

Pete

[Mathew]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

if the front and  rear  toe is set to spec you may get some extra MPH but do respect the national limit . 

Pete

I agree, I did slow as soon as I noticed, it was an overtake or hit situation. Looking for track time when ready.

[JohnD]

Hmmmmmmmmm.    The fastest I've ever been in a Vitesse was in Silverback, on the 'Ring, slightly downhill on the three kilometer Dottinger Hohe straight, 123mph.

As for overtaking a Porsche, respect!    I had a great battle with one, at Brands but he beat me in the end!

[GT6M]

On 19/07/2020 at 17:57, Colin Lindsay said:

My GT6 wheels go way up into the wheelarches on reverse; I've been told this is due to rear toe being out; but there's no sign of excessive tyre wear on any part of the tyre. If it passes MOT tomorrow I'll get it checked on the way back.

Col, thats cos in reverse, the wheels are point,n ootwards at the back, they got toe oot going backwards

so wheels are pulling apart, which pulls car doon

 

it,ll doo it wid v little toe in,

so if its same on both sides, nowt t,worry aboot.

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, GT6M said:

Col, thats cos in reverse, the wheels are point,n ootwards at the back, they got toe oot going backwards

so wheels are pulling apart, which pulls car doon

 

it,ll doo it wid v little toe in,

so if its same on both sides, nowt t,worry aboot.

Glad to hear that; it looks amazing when you reverse the car into a space... very lowered! Some members at local shows have asked me what's wrong with it - the mudflaps are sitting flat on the ground and it looks like something has collapsed, until you drive forwards again and it rises up. This is not the best photo but you can see the rear wheel right up in the wheelarch and just make out the mudflaps. There's no tyre wear at all, so I'm happy to hear it's no worry. That'll save me a trip to the tyre fitter!