Sill trims and seals, GT6

[Roger K]

Late '73 GT6.

I'm starting to tidy up bits of the bodywork, and would appreciate some advice.

My car has seals glued to the seals on both sides.  Given that it's one owner since '74 til now, and has not been modified at all as far as I can see, are these (see photo) correct or a later addition?

The parts book lists 711537 and 711538 as retainers for the sill sealing rubbers.  I don't have these - should they be fitted to a late car?  What are they - metal mouldings that fit over the door seal, or?

Edit - OK - it seems there should be a channel spot welded to the sill to take a seal in this spot.  The car got new sills in '85, and I gather Spitfires didn't have this, so that might explain the absence.  Anyone know if the spotwelded channel, which are the retainers I've mentioned above, are available anywhere or what dimensions they are?

Also (sorry), the parts book lists an A-post seal, 612260, which I can't find at any of the suppliers.  Anyone know any more about this?

EDIT - some answers collated:

Steel channel for GT6 sill - Morris Minor centre EXC130M - bare steel channel, will work but seal is a tight fit.  Better is Triumph 630578, 'Retainer boot lid trim strip Germany', channel in perfect but needs to be removed from spotwelded backing strip.

Rubber seal for sill, fits in the above channel - 620656 weatherstrip seal, available from the usual places.  This is probably COH Baines SRS071, but I haven't tried that.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Roger K
Collated information

[Colin Lindsay]

Those outer sill seals are original, but usually quite rare these days as many owners never replaced them either after bodywork or as they wore out.

612260 is listed in the Herald catalogue as door seal, glass top, convertible only. I haven't found a picture / diagram yet to see where it goes.

[dougbgt6]

That’s interesting. I’ve a Feb ‘73 which I bought in ‘78. I don’t recall a seal there, but it’s on it’s 3rd set of sills. So it’s probably not had the seals for 40 years, if it ever had them. My point is they appear to be no great loss, unless you’re going for concours? 

incidentally do you have the “chrome” plastic strip that runs from front to back on the bottom of the sill? Most seem to have lost them over the years.

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

It's hard to tell from the exploded diagram but I think they're listed as 'extra door seal' on Canleys, part number 620656 and amazingly still available at £7.10 each.

The reason for my confusion is they appear to show a similar part on another diagram, part number 706289 'A-post filler RH' £23.63 each and I've no idea what that is...

[Roger K]

37 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

That’s interesting. I’ve a Feb ‘73 which I bought in ‘78. I don’t recall a seal there, but it’s on it’s 3rd set of sills. So it’s probably not had the seals for 40 years, if it ever had them. My point is they appear to be no great loss, unless you’re going for concours? 

incidentally do you have the “chrome” plastic strip that runs from front to back on the bottom of the sill? Most seem to have lost them over the years.

Doug

Yes, still got the chrome strips covering the welded seam at the bottom of the sills.  Mine are stainless steel, not plastic, held on with clips.

[Roger K]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

The reason for my confusion is they appear to show a similar part on another diagram, part number 706289 'A-post filler RH' £23.63 each and I've no idea what that is...

That's a metal filler panel, photo on Rimmer's site.

[chrishawley]

All GT6s has the extra sill seal up to and including post 20000 (non roto).  A minor detail was that at some point they were shortened by a couple of inches. As per part no. 711537/8 the extra seal is retained in the hockey stick u-channel which is welded to the sill and a-post base filler section. Unsurprisingly 711537/8 are utterly unavailable. I do have a jig for making them but it's a time consuming process even then. Welding them on is tricky as well, since it involves getting tiny plug welds down the base of the channel on to the sill, although blind rivets would be a possible method of attachment.

I don't know about Canley's but Rimmers list '620656' as this seal and it bears no relationship to the shape it should be. Photo shows what it should be (that's a NOS specimen) but you probably know that already from the originals on your car. (That yours have managed to stay glued on for so long is a credit to glue!).

Obviously, these seals aren't essential but ones that are the wrong shape are much worse than useless. At one point I had a 5m roll of a good facsimile of the seal. I could see if I've got any left for you.

[Roger K]

48 minutes ago, chrishawley said:

All GT6s has the extra sill seal up to and including post 20000 (non roto).  A minor detail was that at some point they were shortened by a couple of inches. As per part no. 711537/8 the extra seal is retained in the hockey stick u-channel which is welded to the sill and a-post base filler section. Unsurprisingly 711537/8 are utterly unavailable. I do have a jig for making them but it's a time consuming process even then. Welding them on is tricky as well, since it involves getting tiny plug welds down the base of the channel on to the sill, although blind rivets would be a possible method of attachment.

I don't know about Canley's but Rimmers list '620656' as this seal and it bears no relationship to the shape it should be. Photo shows what it should be (that's a NOS specimen) but you probably know that already from the originals on your car. (That yours have managed to stay glued on for so long is a credit to glue!).

Obviously, these seals aren't essential but ones that are the wrong shape are much worse than useless. At one point I had a 5m roll of a good facsimile of the seal. I could see if I've got any left for you.

Thanks very much Chris.  I'm trying to find some channel to do this, but may have to make the steel channel match whatever seal I can find as I don't have any dimensions.  If you get a chance to measure the channel I could do some cross-matching and see if anything's close.  Making the curve would not be easy, probably too tight for cutting and welding without turning it into a threepenny bit.

 If you can spare some of the seal I would be very grateful!

Roger

[chrishawley]

I'll investigate.

 

Cheers

C

[RichardG]

My '73 GT6 had these originally but when I replaced the sills back in the late 80's I didn't replace them.  The school of thought then was that the metal channel used to hold the seal also acted as a water trap.

I also didn't replace the trim along the bottom of the sills for the same reasons.  However I did keep them in case I decided to add them back on.  I saw them when tiding up the garage only last month. In other word I still can't decide after 34 years; I don't like to rush these decisions.

[ChrisJB]

Out of interest COH Baines have a door seal that looks similar to the section shown above.  https://coh-baines.co.uk/product/srs-071-dual-hardness-epdm-sponge-door-seal/  Stated as being a Triumph TR 4 Door Seal, Triumph 2000/2500, Jaguar seal ( O.E. part number BD20500/4).  I haven't got the seals on my GT6 MkIII so can't check the dimensions.

[chrishawley]

Had a rootle around and here's some further info

• The OE length of the seal was 35 inches as supplied. But the fitted length is shorter than that on later models

• See photos: The seal is 1/4 inch at its root and 3/8th at base which makes the external width of the channel approx 7/16th.

After much searching I eventually found some preformed channel from a Morris Minor which could then be adapted to GT6 purposes. It's the 'lower door seal retaining channel'. Can't remember who was the supplier though. To bend it to shape I made a curved jig then filled the channel with lead which allowed it to be bent without collapsing.

Less good news on the rubber. I've only got enough for one length. But if one is better than nothing I could pop it in the post. Just let me know your details (via a message, not in the posting) and I'll do it.

Hope this gets you a bit further forward.

Cheers

Chris

[Roger K]

That's great information, Chris.

Some coincidence - I'm restoring an XK140DHC at the moment, and there is a 'C' channel along the sill on each side.  At over 20 quid each side I thought I'd keep looking and found the Morris Minor one at Charles Ware's Morris Minor Centre, at £4 per side, so ordered some this afternoon!  

Filling with lead sounds like a good idea - did you melt it in, then out again?  There's a few hopeful seals I've seen, but having something to compare them with would be good.  Woolies have a couple of options, but no dimensions, so it's a bit of a gamble.

Roger

[PeteH]

Before the advent of the "spring" Old time Plumbers used to fill copper tube with lead/solder, bend it, and then heat to remove the solder.

Pete

[chrishawley]

Leading the channel. What I did was:

• Used a low melting point solder i.e. body solder

• Break into crumbs, place in channel and melt in with torch until channel full to brim

• Once cool (ish) bend to shape in the pre-formed..errr.. former.

• Melt out solder into mash pot for future re-use

• Channel now rusty, so dipped in hydrochloric acid, wash, then Jenolite. Painted a/r.

I'll get that bit of of seal off to you, at least that's something definite to work from.

Regs

C

[Roger K]

Thanks.  I have body solder and the kit here (an awful lot of lead on the XK140), and can run it through the blast cabinet afterwards.  Probably need to wat until the door's off to get decent access for making up a former and fitting.

[Roger K]

Update - I have received my order from Rimmers which includes:

630578  Retainer boot lid trim strip Germany

620656  Weatherstrip seal

Both of these look very promising.  The retainer as composed of a long channel that fits the weatherseal perfectly and is more than long enough.  It is spot welded to a flat backing piece with mounting holes, but it wouldn't be too difficult to remove this.  The channel is fairly delicate and shouldn't be too difficult to bend to shape using the lead filling for support.  The packaging is ancient and I don't imagine Rimmers sell very many of them!

The seal has the correct dimensions as far as I can tell, but it will be interesting to compare this with Chris's when it gets here.

More updates to follow!

Roger

 

Edit - the Morris Minor Centre channel has also just arrived, and it is perfect for the job, just needs bending to fit.  Four quid and PN EXC130M.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Roger K

[Roger K]

Further update - the Morris Minor channel is not as good a fit to the Rimmers seal 620656 as the old Triumph channel 630578.  The MM one is narrower and not quite as well formed.  The Triumph channel is clearly a properly-made production item, whereas the Morris one looks like an aftermarket panel, if that makes sense.  The seal slides perfectly into the Triumph channel, and does not pull out easily.  It is much tighter in the MM channel, and cannot be slid in, it needs pushing in with a screwdriver and is on the tight side so is not such a neat fit.

The problem with the Triumph channel will be removing the spotwelded backing, but that just takes time.

[Roger K]

Update:  

I now have Chris's original seal (thanks Chris), and the one Rimmer's and Canley are currently selling as part no. 620656.  The Rimmer's and Canley seals are, as far as I can tell, identical.  

The photo shows, from L to R, Chris's original seal, the Canley seal and the Rimmer's seal.

I think the dimensions of all three are almost the same, with the exception that the 'peak' on the original is a little taller, and the original seems to be bit more curved in profile on the surface that seals against the door.  This may be down to age, long term storage or different design.  The new replacements feel very slightly stiffer, but this may be an age thing (no comments please).

These photos show the two installed in the Triumph channel 630578, original first, Rimmer's/Canley below.

 

Not a lot of difference, but the original seal sits a little 'flatter' perhaps.  Not having the channel welded into place yet, I can't tell if either seal will affect the door fit.  I intend to do this job at some point so will report back once done.

[Pete Lewis]

i get all my seals from CO Baines who make them all in the first place

buy it cheap by the mtr  and vast range of extrusion / foam /mixed  seals for all makes and more 

always very helpfull

https://coh-baines.co.uk/product-category/classic-car/triumph/

Pete

[Paul H]

48 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

i get all my seals from CO Baines who make them all in the first place

buy it cheap by the mtr  and vast range of extrusion / foam /mixed  seals for all makes and more 

always very helpfull

https://coh-baines.co.uk/product-category/classic-car/triumph/

Pete

Another vote for COB . I’ve now got the correct door seals for my Vitesse 

Paul

[Badwolf]

Does anyone know if Baines make the rubbers for all the major parts suppliers? Obviously not the cheap oriental imports on fleabay!!

[Pete Lewis]

well they make loads of seals of all designs  what does matter is the supplier actually orders the correct profile 

not just pick out the first look alike I had some impossible seals supplied by those who should know better and being completely 

impossible found COB and ordered some correct ones which took a bit of research and did each door in 5 mins the others wanted the doors taking off  ...Nah !!!

used SRS071 to fit the C channel on the 2000   

Pete

[Badwolf]

Perhaps a list of Baines references against original part numbers might be useful.

I have a list of seals and rubbers for my MkIV hardtop which I will dig out and post. At least it will give someone a chance to correct it before I order. I was amazed at what Baines stocked/manufactured along with the prices. Especially the front windscreen seal which I think is about half the price of other suppliers.

[Roger K]

I used Baines' Mini door seals, which are much more compliant than the Minispares offerings.