Electric Herald

[Peter Truman]

Being brought up here in Melbourne until 16 we made our Billy Carts with Ball Bearing Wheels, we'd go down to the local garage and bot the old ball bearings the bigger the better, impale the inner race on a square timber axle, held on with a nail thro the timber axle & race down the hills, our footpaths weren't made of concrete flagstones but continuously cast concrete with an expansion groove every 4 foot or so. The ride was a clippedy clop down the hill over these joints, but eventually the trees in the nature strip lifted the footpath and hitting this broken & cracked section would eventually lead to the ball bearing shattering, after that it was a hairy ride to destruction and grazed everthing!

If the road surface was smooth tarmac we'd go down that but on very hot days it was too sticky.

Sometimes we'd collect a housewife coming out of their drive to go shopping and even have to do an emergency slide onto the grassed nature strip to avoid a car backing out across the footpath, all the kids in the street did it so there was no point a parent complaining as they were as guilty as us!

There were no tyres on the ball bearings just steel to the footpath so steering was at best vague!

Aagh the good old days of youth and freedom!

 

[ahebron]

Used to do the same thing here in the 70s.
Nail box for a seat with one side removed and mainly feet doing the steering, we saved rope for proper wheel trolleys.
Like in OZ out pavements were concrete with a concrete gutter that I managed to slice my knee open on.
Tarmac roads no good for ball bearing trolleys as they put chip in them.

[Peter Truman]

Yep no good on stone bitumen surfaces that came late 50’s.

sliced my ankle 7 stitches, making a bonfire my brother put a fork thro my foot, to this day he says I did it to myself, now why would I do that!

[cliff.b]

When trying to get to sleep I sometimes work through the practicalities of adding, not replacing, an electric motor to my Spitfire, just to be used in short "blasts" to improve acceleration. Maybe 10KW or so with maybe 1KW of battery.

My latest musings have the motor in front of the engine with a connection to the crankshaft, like a blower Bentley lol.

If still awake, I move on to thoughts of using this to replace the starter motor, alternator and existing battery, using a convertor to drop down the motor voltage to 12v for existing ancillaries.

Am I going mad 🥴

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, cliff.b said:

Am I going mad 🥴

Not mad, but short of sleep especially when the brain starts working overtime just when it should be shutting down. It's the time when I get the 'eureka' moments and realise what's been causing problems in the garage all day, but thankfully I don't usually get straight up and do anything about it. (I did once, many many years ago when I suddenly realised why I couldn't get a computer-based recording program to work, so fired up the computer at 3am and my partner of the time who was working at 8am was not impressed at all, especially when I started playing music)

However: a self-charging hybrid Triumph... interesting. Cuts in when needed.... reminds me of those old mopeds where you had to pedal to get uphills... 

 

[NonMember]

It's certainly not a completely mad idea. Such integrated starter generator systems enjoyed a brief spell of popularity recently - mostly for stop-start applications - but limiting to 48V to keep within the "low voltage" regulations (and thus avoid lots of extra safety concerns) meant their usefulness for "a bit of extra power when needed" was severely limited.

[cliff.b]

13 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Not mad, but short of sleep especially when the brain starts working overtime just when it should be shutting down. It's the time when I get the 'eureka' moments and realise what's been causing problems in the garage all day, but thankfully I don't usually get straight up and do anything about it. (I did once, many many years ago when I suddenly realised why I couldn't get a computer-based recording program to work, so fired up the computer at 3am and my partner of the time who was working at 8am was not impressed at all, especially when I started playing music)

However: a self-charging hybrid Triumph... interesting. Cuts in when needed.... reminds me of those old mopeds where you had to pedal to get uphills... 

 

Yes, I've actually got up to test something out occasionally. Sometimes it bugs me so much I know that the only way I will ever get any sleep at all 😴

And I was thinking it would work a bit like an electric bike, giving more oomph when needed. Maybe a microswitch activated at full throttle or a "go faster button" on the dash lol

[cliff.b]

9 minutes ago, NonMember said:

It's certainly not a completely mad idea. Such integrated starter generator systems enjoyed a brief spell of popularity recently - mostly for stop-start applications - but limiting to 48V to keep within the "low voltage" regulations (and thus avoid lots of extra safety concerns) meant their usefulness for "a bit of extra power when needed" was severely limited.

Yes, keeping to 48v would make things a lot easier but drawing 200amps for shortish periods seems feasible and would give somewhere near the power I was envisiging.

My bike battery is 10Ah at 36v (0.36KWh) and is both small and fairly light. I can visualise a 20Ah 48v battery fitting into the existing battery space and actually being lighter. I think this would be ample for short bursts of acceleration or improving fuel economy, especially as it could recharge when engine demand was low.

As you may have worked out, last night was one of those sleepless ones 😒

[Wagger]

How about a big vacuum tank (evacuated by manifold vacuum) in the front that 'Opens' big vents that point forward operated by a kickdown switch, with a pessurised one in the boot blasting rearwards at the same time. (Yeah, that is short lived and silly). I do have strange dreams.

Digressing again, I once loaned my estate car to a colleague who was moving house and had use of his Toyota  Mk1 with a supercharger operated by a clutch when kicked-down. Had a load of fun with that in two days.

Bang goes the drive train on the Vitesse if I do that!

How about an electric turbo?

It is difficult not to try some of these.

Good job I have no big motors laying around or I would be doing some of it.

[cliff.b]

25 minutes ago, Wagger said:

How about a big vacuum tank (evacuated by manifold vacuum) in the front that 'Opens' big vents that point forward operated by a kickdown switch, with a pessurised one in the boot blasting rearwards at the same time. (Yeah, that is short lived and silly). I do have strange dreams.

Digressing again, I once loaned my estate car to a colleague who was moving house and had use of his Toyota  Mk1 with a supercharger operated by a clutch when kicked-down. Had a load of fun with that in two days.

Bang goes the drive train on the Vitesse if I do that!

How about an electric turbo?

It is difficult not to try some of these.

Good job I have no big motors laying around or I would be doing some of it.

Ha ha. Or fit a giant flywheel that is spun up to very high speed by regenerative braking then the energy released via a clutch when extra "oomph" is required?

Like those friction drive toy cars we all used to have lol

[Colin Lindsay]

[Wagger]

46 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Is he trying to align the Chamber Pot?

[Jeffds1360]

You guys need to check out the specs on my 'modern'.... a Honda CR-Z.  Its classed as a ULEZ free and only £20 a year tax. 50mpg easy done and a 'sports function.

Pretty and very enjoyable.  It will be for sale soon

1500cc petrol plus a 120v battery in the rear gives 10+ bhp,  no dynamo, no starter motor ...

Edited January 24, 2022 by Jeffds1360
Extra info on engine

[Jeffds1360]

all depends if the chemo works.

 

[Wagger]

1 hour ago, Jeffds1360 said:

You guys need to check out the specs on my 'modern'.... a Honda CR-Z.  Its classed as a ULEZ free and only £20 a year tax. 50mpg easy done and a 'sports function.

Pretty and very enjoyable.  It will be for sale soon

 

Sometimes I wish that I could do wihout an estate car. Too useful, especially when the Bin guys strike.

[PeteH]

1 hour ago, Wagger said:

Sometimes I wish that I could do wihout an estate car. Too useful, especially when the Bin guys strike.

I just have a small "Garden Trailer". Keeps the all the crap out of the vehicle.👍. I don`t suppose that Honda can be flat towed?, without wrecking something?.

 

Pete

[Jeffds1360]

12 minutes ago, PeteH said:

 I don`t suppose that Honda can be flat towed?, without wrecking something?.

 

Pete

Yes it can. It is just a petrol engines car with regeneration facilities and a booster pack. It would probably charge it up too !

[Sparky_Spit]

6 hours ago, Wagger said:

 

How about an electric turbo?

It is difficult not to try some of these.

Good job I have no big motors laying around or I would be doing some of it.

I once tried a bodged together an "electric turbo" on an A Series Mini engine.  My first test setup was an electric hairdryer plugged into the mains with the car stationary and the hairdryer connected the the carb inlet via a suitable rubber tube, just to try the principle. It did help increase revs by quite a bit so I then used a 12v nautical blower motor and integral fan (about 3" in diameter, designed for evacuating fumes from a boat's engine compartment) to see if it worked out on the road.

Basically, it didn't.  It appears that to produce a turbo effect strong enough to give any measurable boost would have needed a much, much larger motor and fan, drawing far more current than the car's 12v system could deliver. It was probably a good thing that I stopped there, before I blew myself up.

[cliff.b]

55 minutes ago, Sparky_Spit said:

I once tried a bodged together an "electric turbo" on an A Series Mini engine.  My first test setup was an electric hairdryer plugged into the mains with the car stationary and the hairdryer connected the the carb inlet via a suitable rubber tube, just to try the principle. It did help increase revs by quite a bit so I then used a 12v nautical blower motor and integral fan (about 3" in diameter, designed for evacuating fumes from a boat's engine compartment) to see if it worked out on the road.

Basically, it didn't.  It appears that to produce a turbo effect strong enough to give any measurable boost would have needed a much, much larger motor and fan, drawing far more current than the car's 12v system could deliver. It was probably a good thing that I stopped there, before I blew myself up.

I think you are right.

I believe a mechanical supercharger can use up to 20% of the engine power so finding an electric substitute for that may be a challenge.

Maybe another smaller petrol (bike?) engine to drive the supercharger 😁

[Sparky_Spit]

Ah yes... of course.  I was trying to make a supercharger, not a turbo!

Just goes to prove I'm not to be trusted with anything I know nothing about.  240volts, red hot hairdryer element, HIF open carb inlet... what could possibly go wrong?

[ahebron]

10 hours ago, cliff.b said:

When trying to get to sleep I sometimes work through the practicalities of adding, not replacing, an electric motor to my Spitfire, just to be used in short "blasts" to improve acceleration. Maybe 10KW or so with maybe 1KW of battery.

My latest musings have the motor in front of the engine with a connection to the crankshaft, like a blower Bentley lol.

If still awake, I move on to thoughts of using this to replace the starter motor, alternator and existing battery, using a convertor to drop down the motor voltage to 12v for existing ancillaries.

Am I going mad 🥴

How about fitting it on the nose of the diff.
No losses going through the drive train, could be used when in neutral for stealth mode.
Or how about an electric motor/overdrive combination.

 

28 minutes ago, Sparky_Spit said:

Ah yes... of course.  I was trying to make a supercharger, not a turbo!

Just goes to prove I'm not to be trusted with anything I know nothing about.  240volts, red hot hairdryer element, HIF open carb inlet... what could possibly go wrong?

That is the the wrong attitude, how do you find out about things if you do not do stuff you do not know about.
You either survive and learn from what you did or you don't.

And here is a link to a 12 volt electric blower
.https://duryeatechnologies.com/duryea-electric-supercharger/

[Wagger]

Find yourselves a really big dynamo and battery, some fat cables and a chain with a sprocket. Connect it to the crank using another sprocket. Use a kickdown switch to connect the motor to the battery. DC dynamos do run as motors.

Actually, my Czechoslovakian scooter had a dynostarter. It was 0.3 bhp and the engine was 5 bhp. I believe that we are entering Toyota Prius territory now.

[cliff.b]

2 hours ago, ahebron said:

How about fitting it on the nose of the diff.
No losses going through the drive train, could be used when in neutral for stealth mode.
Or how about an electric motor/overdrive combination.

 

That is the the wrong attitude, how do you find out about things if you do not do stuff you do not know about.
You either survive and learn from what you did or you don't.

And here is a link to a 12 volt electric blower
.https://duryeatechnologies.com/duryea-electric-supercharger/

Hmm, have I understood that link correctly, the electric supercharger draws 600 Amps at 12v 😱

Not for long, I presume lol

[cliff.b]

4 hours ago, cliff.b said:

I think you are right.

I believe a mechanical supercharger can use up to 20% of the engine power so finding an electric substitute for that may be a challenge.

Maybe another smaller petrol (bike?) engine to drive the supercharger 😁

Actually, this reminded me about an aborted development of the Avro Lancaster that would have used a 5th Merlin engine in the fuselage to drive a massive supercharger to feed the other 4 engines. 

It was designed to reach over 40,000ft, at which altitude it could achieve 400MPH making it impervious to attack.

Or did I dream this 🙄🤔😴

[ahebron]

32 minutes ago, cliff.b said:

Hmm, have I understood that link correctly, the electric supercharger draws 600 Amps at 12v 😱

Not for long, I presume lol

Imagine the belt squeal on a Herald when that switched in.