Electric Herald

[Pdv]

The restoration of my 13/60 is coming along well.

When I took it of the road one of the reasons was a due to a knackered engine.

I was thinking of replacing it with a 1500 engine with an overdrive gearbox.

Was thinking to get a decent replacement would be in the region of £1500.

The amount of eletric cars is increasing and the amount of cars being written off due to accidents will also be on the increase.

Does anybody have any views on converting a Herald or any small Triumph using parts in this way.

I would only use the car for local use and have the ability to charge at home and locally.

Appreciate the batteries will be the main cost but by not wanting 0 to 60 in seconds and not motorway speeds I will be able restrict the amount of battery capacity.

Thanks for any views,  opinions.

Steve

 

 

 

[PeteH]

Practical Classics Earlier this year (April) ran a feature on some Classics that had been converted and those who carry out the conversions. Might be worth a Look for the cost of a Mag:? from what I saw change out of 20K won`t be much?.

My personal opinion is it is something I would be disinclined to do. Not a purist, by any means, but the essence of classics is in my view worth keeping and the I-C engine has a long life yet.

Pete

 

[thescrapman]

Converting car to battery power now seems to involve new high-power and very expensive AC traction motors with all the highly expensive control gear that entails, along with the highly expensive Lithium Ion battery packs needed to feed it.

Thus £20k is a cheap job, many companies charging 2 or 3 times that if you want to pay for it to be done for you.

Fine if it is a £200k Ferrari or such like and want the latest hi-tech solution.

A few years ago you would use a DC motor, along with the much cheaper control gear needed and a boot full of lead-acid batteries.

Set the DC motor to feed into the original gearbox, nice cheap solution.

 

[Bfg]

Before moving forward, I'd calculate the all up weight of the car with a half decent round-trip range on electric, taking into account that after a short while batteries do not hold their originally specified Amp-hr charge.  If the weight is more than the original car's or the front / rear balance is very different then you'll have to up-rate the brakes and suspension.  Will that then mean additional chassis stiffening too.?  

There's also a whole lot of fabricating needed to stow rectangular batteries within the existing engine bay / body tub curves.

All doable but possibly not the route you wanted to go.

I don't know what the construction and use rules are on converting to electric power, although I understand that a normal change to engine, gearbox and drive-train all contribute towards needing special vehicle testing, while still using internal-combustion-engines.

I'd also suggest you discuss the idea with your insurance company too.  It would be shame do all that converting and then they quadruple your insurance premium.

Pete.

[DVD3500]

I have made multiple posts on here about a Spitfire that was converted. I'll try not repeat myself too much here.

I wouldn't worry about weight. Once you get rid of all the ICE stuff you have a lot of weight to play with. Triumph engines ain't lightweights. You can get a decent front/back distribution as well. Might even make the care handle better in slippery weather.,...

There are alternatives to Lithium Ion like Lithium Iron. Safer but heavier and less energy dense. Also cobalt free so less of a human slavery issue...

Most conversion run between 10k to 30k of your favorite currency. The batteries are highest cost. Most I have seen have a range of 100 to 200 miles, give or take of course.

Most conversions bolt on to the existing drivetrain which for a care that maybe only had 70-80 lb/ft of torque needs to be taken into consideration.

Everyone I know who has done has discovered they drive the car a LOT more, e.g. instead of a few KM/Miles a year they drive it thousands...

[Chris Longhurst]

A TV programme from 2020 called 'Vintage Voltage' features electric motor conversions of classic cars (& m'cycles) - it is frequently repeated on Quest Freeview (*) in the UK. Worth a watch if you are interested - some (all?) of the conversions were expensive; no doubt cheaper if you are DIYing!

VV website is here - https://www.vintagevoltage.tv/

(*) probably also streamed.

[Nick Jones]

I’ve looked into this in some detail as the thought of converting my GT6 won’t leave.

I’ve even spoken to “Moggy” of Vintage Voltage fame about it. He wanted £60k for a turnkey job or £35-40k in parts.

That's definitely well on the high side, but unless you take the route of cobbling something together with old fork lift motors, home-brewed controllers and lead acid batteries (which is entirely possible), you will be looking at at least £10 - 14k in parts alone.

Nick

[DVD3500]

Yeah the cost is still very high. Ten years ago the price was 1000 of your favorite currency per Kilowatt hour and now it is about 150 so if you give it time it will improve...

The guy down the road had his MKIV Spitfire converted for about 20k€.

That is with 20KW of battery which is good for almost 100 miles, usually a bit less.

There are things you could do to get it to go farther.

The cost was also higher as he was the first one to do it at that shop and it includes about 2k€ for the German MOT (TÜV) to approve the car.

Having said that, he will pay no taxes for 10 years which here equates to a few thousand (I would have to double check).

Sometimes he can charge the car for free, otherwise it costs between 4 to 9€ for a full "tank" so you can do the math on that. Fuel is brushing 2€ a liter here as an FYI...

He also has no more oil changes, radiator flushes and the brakes and clutch barely get used (he starts off in 4rd and shifts to 4th, regenerative braking can almost always stop the car).

Most importantly he has driven more than 20k KM with it since the conversion in early 2020 where int he past he maybe drove 300-500 miles.

It really has become a second car for him. If you look at it from that perspective  20k€ isn't that much more than any second-hand car you might buy if you calculate the running costs.

One major downside: you hear EVRYTHING.. from your neighbor's whinging to that squeaking bolt in the roof/hood frame... 🙂

Moggy's prices seem a bit on the high side but I know they use a lot of Tesla tech that is expensive. Also I am sure they are very very busy...

 

[PeteH]

On 18/11/2021 at 10:25, DVD3500 said:

Sometimes he can charge the car for free, otherwise it costs between 4 to 9€ for a full "tank" so you can do the math on that. Fuel is brushing 2€ a liter here as an FYI...

Only good until the Government "bean" counters cotton on the the fact that this is a good new market in personal transportation to TAX. Before the expansion of Diesel Car use, Diesel was 10p/litre below Petrol (Gas), Now it is anything over 10 or more pence a litre higher.

Pete

[Clive]

9 minutes ago, PeteH said:

Only good until the Government "bean" counters cotton on the the fact that this is a good new market in personal transportation to TAX. Before the expansion of Diesel Car use, Diesel was 10p/litre below Petrol (Gas), Now it is anything over 10 or more pence a litre higher.

Pete

Tax on diesel and petrol is the same, so not govt causing the price difference.

But yes, we need to make up for the lost tax, either that or massive cuts. I think re-allocate the taxes is best, maybe road/toll charging? 

[PeteH]

Just now, clive said:

maybe road/toll charging? 

That`s, been on the cards for many years. Every time it was raised, there was the "usual" objection around the "why should I pay as much for my Little Mini as Lord Muck in his Roller"?

It will almost certainly come back to banding In my veiw.

Pete

6 minutes ago, clive said:

Tax on diesel and petrol is the same, so not govt causing the price difference.

It is now, but back in the 80`s there was a differential. Diesel was taxed lower as a "commercial" fuel.

Pete

[Clive]

7 minutes ago, PeteH said:

That`s, been on the cards for many years. Every time it was raised, there was the "usual" objection around the "why should I pay as much for my Little Mini as Lord Muck in his Roller"?

It will almost certainly come back to banding In my veiw.

Pete

It is now, but back in the 80`s there was a differential. Diesel was taxed lower as a "commercial" fuel.

Pete

Ah, I thought you meant the recent price changes rather than over the past 40 years

Just checked o petrol prices since 1983, when I passed my test. It is only now more expensive in real terms than 1983, to be equivalent it would be about £1.30/litre. 2010-14 were the expensive years in real terms.

 

[Badwolf]

As for the lost fuel duty, I foresee not only road toll charges but an annual mileage return, possibly linked to the MOT where due, so you would get an annual bill possibly payable on a monthly direct debit scheme.

[DVD3500]

Well electricity is paid for in some form or other. We got a break down in the mail yesterday. There are about 5 taxes on there in addition to all the other stuff so I think they are getting their share...

[Chris A]

There is no doubt in my mind that when governments in no matter what country find that the drop in revenue due to motorists switching from the highly taxed petrol and diesel fuels to other 'fuel's for cars they will find some way of getting the money back. Difficult to increase the tax on electricity for car use as how do they make the distinction between consumption for heating etc and charging a car at home?  I'm waiting for the tax on E85 petrol to be increased here. E85 is currently less than 1/2 the price of traditional petrol if the numbers converting to this continue as at present it won't be long before the taxes increase.

[Ian Smith]

I'm going to have a large magnet on the front of my car...

Except...

Damn those vehicles with plastic bumpers!

[PeteH]

2 minutes ago, Ian Smith said:

I'm going to have a large magnet on the front of my car...

Except...

Damn those vehicles with plastic bumpers!

Reminds me of the old Trolley buses, we used to grab the upright bar on the rear boarding platform and hitch a ride on our bikes.! Those things couldn't half shift from a standing start! With old conductress` screaming at us.!😁

[Wagger]

Until this week, I was going to have solar power installed with a high current electric car charging point. The survey revealed that there is no longer a viable feed in tarriff, and it would take 20 years to recoup the cost. I am unlikely to survive to 94 and won't want to drive after 85, except my classic.

Then there were two documentaries on how the cobalt miners are being exploited plus the fact that our infastructure is not there for EV's. Also, the advice on EV batteries is to run them between 20 and 80% charge. That means the range is reduced from 200 to about 120 miles. .

Again, we have known how to filter CO2 from the atmosphere for decades and not pursued it. We are now felling trees to eradicate diseases. Where is the logic in that?

It is all very disappointing, just as in the past. The Marples/Beeching railway cull was done in order to raise revenue from fuel after most of us bought vehicles. If you make your own fuel (Used veggie to bio) you are taxed when you use it. All very annoying. You try to do something for the environment only to be thwarted,

As lads, we learned to ride motorbikes on a pal's dad's farm. Also cars and tractors, aged just 13.  No such joys for today's youngsters.

Cold weather is hampering my car work, mst do something about that tomorrow. Needto restore sense of humour.

[Chris A]

6 minutes ago, Wagger said:

Needto restore sense of humour.

New old stock is better than Chinese rubbish 🤔

[Chris Longhurst]

Vintage Voltage is back with a new series on UK Freeview (Quest - 114 (HD), 12 (SD) in my area) next Thursday (27th Jan) at 2100.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

On 26/11/2021 at 19:54, Wagger said:

As lads, we learned to ride motorbikes on a pal's dad's farm. Also cars and tractors, aged just 13.  No such joys for today's youngsters.

Still goes on, my wife's cousins blasted an old Capri round their farm in the 1990s and now their children are doing it! Same Capri too!

Round here the average age of the tractor driver is about 12 and of course we have the yahoos down the other end of the road with their lowered Hondas and Seats, they're all aged about 16 - 18. Hard to tell these days, they all look alike to me.

I do have to laugh at some of the priorities of the young, though... another of the nephews laughed at my car as being old and uncomfortable; when I told him that it was better than his - he doesn't have one - he pulled up a computer game on the TV and showed me that he could drive a Ferrari, or a Lamborghini, or a Porsche, therefore his cars were better than mine.

[Wagger]

13 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Still goes on, my wife's cousins blasted an old Capri round their farm in the 1990s and now their children are doing it! Same Capri too!

Round here the average age of the tractor driver is about 12 and of course we have the yahoos down the other end of the road with their lowered Hondas and Seats, they're all aged about 16 - 18. Hard to tell these days, they all look alike to me.

I do have to laugh at some of the priorities of the young, though... another of the nephews laughed at my car as being old and uncomfortable; when I told him that it was better than his - he doesn't have one - he pulled up a computer game on the TV and showed me that he could drive a Ferrari, or a Lamborghini, or a Porsche, therefore his cars were better than mine.

Wish that we could have those days again, nowhere over here for that now, unless you own a farm. My son has 26 acres in Berwickshire but only one road.. Could do grass go-carts though.

[Colin Lindsay]

My nephew is an absolute Engineering genius; I wish he'd mature a bit and realise what he is and what he's got, but he's hard to motivate some days. He builds all sorts of weird and wonderful contraptions, go-karts and motorised bikes; one of his last was capable of an amazing speed for a push bike and he used to race it up and down the footpath outside his house. He was chased by local Police and drove into his yard, round the rear of the house, unclipped the lawnmower engine and let it drop, then cycled back round to meet them. Same bike, no motor, nothing illegal here Constable...  Days gone by he'd have been in the league of Harry Ferguson, building his own motorbikes or aeroplanes. He just goes into the workshop and makes all his own parts on the lathes. 

[Badwolf]

14 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

....... makes all his own parts on the lathes. 

..And you're the one trying to find spare parts???  

[Wagger]

When 12 years old I added suspension to my four wheeled cart using bicycle saddle springs on a square pram axle with right angled brackets as guides. Took it to the local steep hill. Developed a terrible steering oscillation at about 15mph. Gravel rash (again). Nobody told me about shock absorbers.