Moron the Heater

[JohnD]

Well, I thought even Conan went a bit far there!

[Wagger]

Should have held on to my Motorcycling Barbour jacket, lined leggings, seaboot socks and woollen inner mittens. Oh! and the flying boots. Amazing how one could brake, change gear, operate clutch and lights when you are coated in wax. Makes working with greasy fingers a doddle. AND the amazing Turbo Visor. Dare not turn your head when that was spinning. Gyroscopes here we go.

Thanks for the fun. Engine now making odd noises. Only noticed whilst sorting the Heater and working close to it. Time for yet another topic. Watch out everybody.

[Nick Jones]

Was going to suggest to check the valve.

The other thing that happens is that the division in the header tank that is supposed to force the circulation through the matrix fails, allowing some or all of the flow to pass directly from inlet to outlet, bypassing the matrix altogether.

Nick

[Wagger]

Hi Nic. No header tank on my Vitesse.

Something that I will do over the Winter is, remove the sump, bash it in to clear the rack, fit the overdrive etc, AND this will enable me to get the top hose outlet closer in height to the top of the radiator. At present, I am having to fill via the top hose in order to be sure that there is enough water in the system. I will post again soon under 'Engine noises'.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

Well, I thought even Conan went a bit far there!

Great movie. Love the Thulsa Doom bit: "I have watched you. For a thousand years I have watched you. And I still can't balance the carbs by myself..."

[Nick Jones]

2 hours ago, Wagger said:

No header tank on my Vitesse

Should have said end tank then.....

....... the red-ringed part.  There is a divider in there between the pipe stubs to send the flow out along the top two rows of tubes, into the open end tank at the other end and back along the two bottom sets of tubes. If I've misremembered the flow direction - tough!  It's possibly different on mine anyway as the Smiths valves went in the bin years ago, as did the manifold heating.  Doesn't matter anyway - the point is that if anything happens to the divider, the flow shortcuts and misses out the tubes, so you get a matrix that appears to flow just fine but produces little or no heat.

This is what the other end looks like with the cover off.  Red line shows the position of the divider at the connection end

Nick

[Wagger]

Thanks Nick. I'll pull it out another time now. Maybe flush the whole system with soda first.

[JohnD]

Bit of an aside, but anyone who has watched Project Binky will have seen Nik the Barbarian Blackhurst, calmly cutting radiator cores in half, both across and lengthways. and equally calmly and (mostly) successfully, welding them up again.

Truly, the man is the Crom of our time.   We should all pray to him for success in our mundane endeavours.

John

[Paul H]

On 15/11/2021 at 12:11, Paul H said:

I still have the old matrix from my Vitesse mk2 , it’s probably the original and dated 69 . I’ve filled the matrix with 50/50 malt vinager and boiling water . The matrix took 250ml of the mixture . The matrix had a lot of unremovable crud at the opposite end to the pipes and rattled when shook . Currently the matrix is warm throughout suggesting there are no blockages or leaks  I’ll leave the mixture in for 3 days and report back with my findings 

 

Paul

Flushed out the matrix today until clear water running . I won’t be able to check if the solids have dissolved completely  until it completely dries , The matrix is now fine and no leaks so can be used again . Here’s another pic which shows the top with the plate which divides the matrix . 

Paul

 

[SpitFire6]

On 13/11/2021 at 14:34, Wagger said:

I know it should read 'More on the Heater' but this is turning me moronic.

I am nervous of flushing the matrix in case I cause leaks or it achieves very little.

As there is plenty of space in the 'Plenum' chamber I am going to try to place an electric element inside it. Not too many people know this, but those 'Hedgehog' devices used to control the airflow in more recent cars double up as heaters when the Fast demist is in use. However, they burn out if the airflow stops.

As most of the alternators are less than 50 amps, the rating is limited to below 500watts. There are add on devices available of this rating. However, with lights and all else on it is asking too much of the alternator for continous use. I should, probably, have fitted a more powerful alternator as there are 200 amp versions availble for newer cars.

I have removed some ceramic elements from old Halfords 120 watt windsreen demisters and I will bolt these to a heatsink and fit in the plenum chamber if I can access it easily. Otherwise, it is fit them in the blower outlets.

I have also considered raiding seat heating elements from scrap cars.

A totally metal gearbox cover would solve it altogether eh!

As usual any ideas welcome.

 

Hi,

 A light bulb is just as efficient as a heating element; a 120 Watt bulb will produce the same "heat" as a 120 watt windscreen demister. No difference between a pure resistance and a lamp. Resistor or lamp makes no difference, but lamp is cheaper and readily available.
Two H4's would be 60W + 55W * 2 = 230Watts.

Just saying.

Iain.

PS. Do not let the light out or you will lose some of the "heat".

Edit: Lamp will not burn out if no flow unlike resistor. (bulb holder must be able to handle heat generation of course)

Edited November 18, 2021 by SpitFire6
Edit

[Wagger]

Yes, I have used bulbs as heaters but they can burn surrounding materials. However, in the heater box they would be fine.

Appreciate your idea. I used bulbs when I made an alternator tester for a scrap dealer years ago. Use a 1hp motor, stretchy fan belt and 500 watts of lamps. These days you would need a 3hp motor and 2000 watts worth of lamps. Not really practical for newer cars. OK for Triumphs though.

 

[Wagger]

Following PaulH's pictures, I popped the top heater hose off and poked around with a piece of wire. Indeed, there were a few holes but most of the divider was still there.

I mixed up some soda, fitted short hoses and funnel and poured in really hot solution. Left it for an hour whilst doing another test.

Flushed through with more hot soda, then hot water followed by cold. However, it kept blocking when filling from top. I persevered each way and blew through (resulting in the drain hose rising from the bucket and squirting warm water down my leg, not a new experience but it was the other leg, 'SHUTUP' ).

I then hosed it through for five minutes (From the tap before you ask). The result is nice warm air coming into the cabin. HOORAY! No need for an electric mod (Yet).

[Peaks]

There I no substitute for opening up the matrix and rodding it through. I tried soda crystals, and reverse flushing and thay didn't make much, if any, difference. I paid a radiator recore company £40 to clean the matrix and now my Vitesse heater is almost good. 

Hopefully you can see in the photos the small solid blockages in the tubes. 

[Wagger]

I take your point Peaks, but it will do for now. Since fitting an alternator and finding the heater box more 'Holey than righteous' plus the fact that the divider is shot, the space inside the heater box looks more suitable for a 200watt electric element. That would be 'Instant' even if only 'Lukewarm'.

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 Never understood what soda crystals were supposed to do to internals of a car coolant system?

Anyone care to explain?

Cheers,

Iain.

[Pete Lewis]

quick search of  net gives  apart from water softening 

Try using your soda crystals for:   household uses 

• Cleaning your washing machine.
• Preventing drains from becoming clogged.
• Removing stubborn, burnt on food from your pots and pans.
• Boosting your laundry detergent.
• Removing stains from clothes.
• Softening towels.
• Cleaning patios and paths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate

[Wagger]

My mother always used soda in her wash before the days when we had a washing machine. We had a Copper with a fire under it. Used buckets to transfer the water to our bath. No piped running water until 1951 and that was cold. She used it for saucepans and meat dishes too. Never wore gloves, always had spotless hands. This was in rural East Sussex, not some remote valley in the North.

It is an Alkali. Dissolves stuff that acids won't touch. Acids dissolve stuff that alkalis won't touch. Use both in series and you will clean or dissolve anything beyond repair if you are not careful.

 

[johny]

Yes dont think its much good for scale, that needs an acid to attack it, also not recommended for aluminium for those with ally rads...

[Chris A]

32 minutes ago, johny said:

Yes dont think its much good for scale, that needs an acid to attack it

White vinegar is the weapon of choice here in France. It comes in stronger concentrations than 'normal' stuff, our normal is 8° the stronger is 14° and comes in 5 litres rather than 1 or 1.5.

Used for descaling everything around the house, mind you the fumes will also clean out you sinuses 

[johny]

Some recommend mixing the two, vinegar and soda, but I cant see much point in that as surely they neutralise one another....

[Pete Lewis]

Its all ive ever used to clean out all the brown aged sludge that clings to the system  not that i need to do it very often 

and in the good  days of old School it was all there was 

but  its cheap and it works 

Pete

[PeteH]

The chemistry is quite complex. But we used combinations to descale and clean Steam plant, Usually starting with alkaloid`s, rinse, then Acids, to remove scale, rinse, then another alkaloid to "passify" the surface before introducing treated water back into the Drums. Boiler water treatments are a combination of "art and science". We "just followed orders". I use White vinegar crystals, to clean and descale  the heater in my Camper on an annual basis, which I know to be Stainless steel. It` is also very effective to descale kettles etc as well as copper and many other non ferrous items. One has however to be very careful of contact time. Exposing Aluminum to Soda is inadvisable.

If anyone has the remotest interest this NZ Download is worth a look?.                  https://nzic.org.nz/app/uploads/2017/10/8H.pdf

 

 

Pete