Damp weather affecting ignition system?.

[daverclasper]

Hi. I used to use the car at least once a week until this winter, when it may be 2 weeks plus. Car is under a cover on the road.

Has been a bit more difficult to start lately and this week, only just managed to start it. It cranks over for a while, then tries to start, though as soon as it coughs, the bendix withdraws, so wont keep on cranking. When is does eventually manage to get running, it sounds like only running on 1/2 cylinders, until you nurse for a a good few seconds until the other cylinders begin to kick in.

Been very damp weather lately the car has been sitting in, so is a spray of WD/40 inside dizzy, plug leads inside caps and  along leads, around coil, etc, worth a try?, before further adjustment/investigation/replacement of consumables.

Thanks, Dave 

  

[Steve P]

My Vitesse is the same, i suspect mine is the old rubber fuel pipes though.

Steve

[RogerH]

Hi Dave,

sitting quietly for so long ( 2 weeks) may allow the petrol to drain away from the carbs or evaporate.

When you crank it over it is trying to start but with not enough (initially) fuel  so the plugs get wet but unable to burn off the excess fuel.

Make sure the battery is well charged,

I would NOT put WD40 inside the dizzy - it isn't designed to dry out the cap  but it will leave a residue that may cause tracking/arcing

Put the WD40 in the dustbin and let the binmen take it away.

 

Roger

[Pete Lewis]

agree wd40 is a moisture dispersant  but use out side not inside units 

paper towel is a lot cheaper for a wipe dry 

under a cover will make it sweat ,  if it kicks back to throw the bendix it may be a tad too advanced  as well 

pete

 

[NonMember]

I once sprayed WD40 inside the disi cap of a Mk1 2000 that was refusing to start after being sat for several weeks. Cap back on, crank it over again, engine burst into life accompanied by a loud bang as the WD40 exploded inside the distributor. Not quite sure how it failed to break anything in the process but I was lucky that time.

The car I had that used to stumble very gradually into reluctant life was the 2.5PI - fortunately with a pre-engaged starter. The Toledo was very prone to firing just strongly enough to disengage the Bendix but not to keep the engine running. When it did start, though, it always then ran smoothly from the get go.

[Badwolf]

Many years ago I had a problem with starting and even running in damp weather. An old sage of a mechanic suggested spraying the outside of the distributor with a very fine spray of water, then an assistant turned the engine over (this was done in the dark) while I watched. The spark along outside of the cap revealed a quite spectacular crack in the distributor which was invisible under normal circumstances. New cap and off we went. The same trick revealed sparks tracking along a damaged plug lead on another occasion.

[Clive]

My daughters both learnt to drive in a (proper) mini, and it was kept for a few years after. They got good at swapping the cap and leads, often in the rain, when emerging from a shift at the "local" sainsburys. The wet cap/leads (leads marked up with yellow cable ties to identify cylinder number) went on the hallway radiator to dry out, then put on the back seat ready for the next swap.

My Triumphs have never really suffered from damp starting. A mates herald does occasionally. He wafts a propane heat/roofing gun over the engine to dry it out, then off it goes. It must be a combination of very wet ground and it lives out of the early morning sun? 

[Colin Lindsay]

You used to be able to buy a rubber cover for the Mini distributor; in fact you still can:

https://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/8G726.aspx

Looks like it should fit the Herald side-entry cap too, but then it doesn't suffer the same as the Mini version would, due to the position on the engine.

[daverclasper]

Thank for your replies.

Well. Not sure I understand this. 

Did a few things I thought might have helped with better starting.

Car didn't even attempt to start.

Before checking if plugs sparking (bit awkward as was on my own and no solonoid start button), I had a look at all the plugs, about 5 mins after lots of cranking and bone dry. I assumed they should be wet?.

Grapped a passer bye and he cranked while I checked for fuel just where the pipe seperates for both carbs. Healthly looking spurts, the same as I've seen in the past.

I can check for sparking, when my glamourous assistant is around tom, though does this seem like fuelling?.

As viewed from the carb bodies the Choke lifter bar spindles are moving and fast idle cam is moving the throttles.

Just recently the car has been hunting for a minute or two after starting until warmed/off choke. Could this be related?

After warming the car has been running really well, the (dry) plugs were also a nice biscuit colour.

Cheers, Dave

[NonMember]

Have you tried thumping the float chambers incase the valves have stuck shut? It does sound like no fuel getting through. It's also (just) possible the splitter pipe is blocked. Also, try filling the air cleaner with EasyStart (or WD40) and see whether it starts on that (even if it only runs for a second, that would confirm a fuel problem).

[Wagger]

In my case it has always been either condensation inside the distributor, or air in the fuel line. Drying the Dizzy is not always easy in damp weather. I have fitted an electric priming pump now for the other problem, and changed the hose at the top of the fuel tank. Air through any pinhole will gather at this point and the syphon is difficult to overcome using the priming lever.

[daverclasper]

3 hours ago, NonMember said:

Have you tried thumping the float chambers incase the valves have stuck shut? It does sound like no fuel getting through. It's also (just) possible the splitter pipe is blocked. Also, try filling the air cleaner with EasyStart (or WD40) and see whether it starts on that (even if it only runs for a second, that would confirm a fuel problem).

Thanks folks. I did wonder about the float valves (though both sticking)?., they aren't that old (well about 6 years). Car is used all year round, with some regular good runs. Never see any dirt in filter, I feel the whole systems pretty clean?.

Will check spark, though it seems odd the plugs so dry, after a lot of cranking on choke, is that normal?.

Will try carb cleaner or brake cleaner. Is it worth/better taking the the filter box off and spraying directly into carbs?.

Have a trip booked on Fri, so if I can get it running just for that, would be good. Only car, so won't be able to go, otherwise.

Cheers, Dave

[Pete Lewis]

you still need to prove a spark but for fuel whip the filters off and stick finger in , is the top jet area wet or dry ????

do check the welch plugs either end of the manifold balance pipe that one hasnt  dropped out 

Pete

[daverclasper]

Thanks for info. Pete, you mentioned the balance pipe plugs, which would cause a big intake of air. I was wondering if a smaller leak from maybe the PCV hose/s could weaken mixture enough to upset starting to this extent and also cause the hunting?, or even a manifold gasket leak?. I thought probably not, as car runs and starts fine when warm, though just checking.

Anything wrong with squirting petrol into carbs to aid starting?, I know some folk do.

[NonMember]

PCV hoses certainly can weaken the mixture very badly but I'd expect that to cause bad running when warm, too.

I don't really see why you can't squirt petrol in to help it start, but it's not generally available in a handy aerosol can, unlike EasyStart, WD40, brake cleaner, or any of the other options mentioned before.

[daverclasper]

Thanks. I've seen those small, crinkley type drinking water bottles used, with a small hole drilled in the cap. Petrol doesn't appear to melt them.

[Pete Lewis]

i remember as a lad an old open american tourer came up the hill from Helston and stalled at the top I really only remember the 3 scantilly clad girls on the back seat 

anyway my dad offer to help ...no its fine says the driver who poured  a load fuel from a can down the carb   well it fired up with an explosive sheet of flame about 4ft high and drove  off with the girls never to be seen again  and i missed out on getting a phone number 

so yes petrol can work  but like anything take a lot of care 

Pete

[Peter Truman]

You mean a spray can of “Start You Bast**d” 

[RogerH]

12 minutes ago, Peter Truman said:

You mean a spray can of “Start You Bast**d” 

...............that works.................

 

Roger

[Wagger]

Basil Fawlty comes to mind. Do you have a tree handy?

Oh for the accelerator pumps on the first Vitesses eh?. They caused flooding, Manifolds had drains with valves. All of this was soon deleted. I wonder why.