iana Posted January 19, 2022 Report Share Posted January 19, 2022 I’ve got the opportunity of purchasing an overdrive gearbox locally, it’s a d type overdrive box from a vitesse - could this be used on a 13/60 estate? If so what modifications are required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 19, 2022 Report Share Posted January 19, 2022 Not easily. The input shaft is wrong (too long being the main issue) You could use te mainshaft and overdrive bits to get a 4 synchro, 3 rail, spitfire box converted. Or as a friend did 25 years ago, cut the input shaft and weld on the herald one. But that is a bit advanced, and apparently won't last (his is only up to 120K and still fine in his spitfire) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 19, 2022 Report Share Posted January 19, 2022 you may be able to use your input shaft in the vit spec gearbox the tooth profiles changed much later in the evolution dont think that will be an issue ( obviously the input shaft tooth count has to match but it should be possible if they are the same gear size , youre too far away to suggest a visit to check it out Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 19, 2022 Report Share Posted January 19, 2022 First gear ratio will also be different and possibly other gears as well. Might make it tougher pulling away especially in an estate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 19, 2022 Report Share Posted January 19, 2022 The gear ratios are rather different. If the price is right though the overdrive specific bits could be used to convert your existing box (oil pump drive, adaptor plate, cut out switch mechanism, and the overdrive itself - I think that’s everything). You might also be able to use the mainshaft, if it’s in good condition, and compatible with the Herald gearset (I’d guess so but don’t know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 You could also buy a Mk4 Spitfire type 4-synchro box without OD and Make 2 into 1, and infact also have a non-OD Vitesse box at the end. Unless it is a Vitesse 1600 OD box. Needs to be 2-litre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, thescrapman said: You could also buy a Mk4 Spitfire type 4-synchro box without OD and Make 2 into 1, and infact also have a non-OD Vitesse box at the end. Unless it is a Vitesse 1600 OD box. Needs to be 2-litre. Do catch up old bean, said that up top. If a 1600 vitesse OD box it can be used to convert the herald gearbox. Either way, a gearbox man is needed. However, a curveball. I once saw a spitfire 1500 box attached to a 6 cylinder engine, the used the GT6 backplate, spitfire bellhousing (no idea if bolts lone up or redrilled) and copped the bellhousing for the starter (opposite side, but Colin knows that) However, I assume 4 and 6 cylinder backplates can be swapped. So could a vitesse/GT6 backplate be used, may require matching flywheel/clutch assembly too. And then fit a vitesse gearbox to a 4 cylinder car? All sounds too simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Think youd end up with the smaller clutch that might then struggle with the 6 cylinder torque.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, johny said: Think youd end up with the smaller clutch that might then struggle with the 6 cylinder torque.... Fair point, I think it was an American car. But at least the 1500 clutch is halfway between the smaller engined one and the 6 cylinder. And the way many drivers potter about, it may be OK. But this thought exercise is about 6 cylinder box (plus flywheel/clutch) onto a 4 cylinder engine. So clutch too big if anything. The flywheel/crank bolts may need collars, they used to be available. The first gear may be an issue, especially on a hill with 4 people in the car. My friends spitfire (MK3) doesn't like hillstarts with 2 in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Yes sure it could be done that way round but would end up longer so propshaft might need shortening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, clive said: So could a vitesse/GT6 backplate be used, may require matching flywheel/clutch assembly too. And then fit a vitesse gearbox to a 4 cylinder car? I think you'd struggle to fit the starter on the RHS of a Herald because the exhaust is too close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, NonMember said: I think you'd struggle to fit the starter on the RHS of a Herald because the exhaust is too close. Good point, and not easy to solve. Well, a tig welder would do it easily enough. 32 minutes ago, johny said: Yes sure it could be done that way round but would end up longer so propshaft might need shortening? True. But thesedays it is probably wise to get a new prop anyway if doinga swap, unbalanced props are miserable. But all this was just a thought experiment. Fundamentally I have not seen a 6 cylinder box on the back of a 4 cylinder engine. And I am sure somebody will have at least tried, but not heard/seen anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, clive said: Good point, and not easy to solve. Other than by fitting a four cylinder bellhousing which should be a straight fit to the gearbox body; ignore all the other attached bits which I presume you'll take off the four cylinder engine / gearbox so we're left with the box and the O/D. If the outer gearbox casing is the same between the four and six cylinder models then surely the internals can be swapped / mixed and matched so as to give the 13/60 ratios and correct input shaft, but with the benefit of the O/D? My gearbox expertise is limited to cleaning the casing and replacing bearings and seals, but are all the internal shafts the same across models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 I know 3 and all-synchro mainshafts arent the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 back to swap the input shaft yes gear ratios will be a tad different ( devised by the cluster not the contant mesh ) but i dont have a 4 cyl stem gear to check it against the 6 cyl as if they are gear compatible its just drop the cluster/layshaft pop the input assy out refit the 4 cyl lift the cluster back done i converted a spitfire 4 sync the to replace the Vit6 3 sync quite easily with a simple swap of inputs shafts better ratios as well and thinking back we have local spitfire i used a 6 cyl cluster in with a revised 2nd /3rd to match still going strong Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iana Posted January 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Thanks all, I was hoping there was a simple solution which there clearly isn’t so I will give the gearbox a miss and keep looking for another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Or buy the gearbox in the hope there's a Vitesse owner with a 13/60 OD 'box they want to sell/exchange. Having seen the recent thread about how many spare parts people have lying about, that may not be such a daft option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 except the Herald 1360 was never available with overdrive, so would have to be a spitfire box either 3 synchro mk 2-3 (very rare these days) or 4 synchro mk4 11 minutes ago, Patrick Taylor said: Or buy the gearbox in the hope there's a Vitesse owner with a 13/60 OD 'box they want to sell/exchange. Having seen the recent thread about how many spare parts people have lying about, that may not be such a daft option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 11 hours ago, DanMi said: except the Herald 1360 was never available with overdrive, so would have to be a spitfire box either 3 synchro mk 2-3 (very rare these days) or 4 synchro mk4 Ah, that's what comes of being a Bond owner -they had a mix of things. When I upgraded to O/D, the box came from a Mk4 Spit -but then the engine is Mk3, not 13/60 (if that's different...?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Do not forget that I have a Dolomite O/D box on my 13/60 Done by PO but seems simple. Actually it is a toledo box and a spitfire iv engine! Edited January 21, 2022 by Jeffds1360 Wrong box/engine !! :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 Actually it might be a Toledo box !! I've lost my notes and cannot find my posts from about 21 months ago when someone analysed the box number. Default search seems max one year and I'm stuck my bed just now. Sorry. Would this not be a straight swap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said: Actually it might be a Toledo box !! I've lost my notes and cannot find my posts from about 21 months ago when someone analysed the box number. Default search seems max one year and I'm stuck my bed just now. Sorry. Would this not be a straight swap? No toledo or dolomite 1300 ever left the factory with overdrive. So either a dolly 1500 (same as spit 1500, single rail) or somebody used a dolly/tolly box (or just case) to build an overdrive box. I know Canleys built hundreds (maybe thousands!) of 4 syncho od boxes so very possible they used many dolly/tolly non od boxes as core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 Oh well. My engine has FH29366HE on the block and the 'box (+O/D) has DG106119 on the casing. Who knows what shafts/clutch/flywheel !!! I got no history with it but it is an excellent combination on my cv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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