Iain T Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 I've been connecting the relays for my Vitesse and discovered all the old breaks in the old cables, some just twisted and taped together! I was expecting a mess as the headlamps where hit and miss. Anyway I connected everything just to make sure everything worked prior to ordering some H4 harnesses and discovered the dip/main outside lamps didn't turn on. That's the lamps connected with blue/red cables. A bit of head scratching then I checked if there was 12v at the b/r cable going into the relay....nuffink! I connected the blue/white (mains) and hey presto let there be light! So I have no 12v at the loom side of the b/r cable hence the relay isn't triggered. I took the instrument panel lamp pull switch off and checked if terminals 3/4 and 8 were open/closed with terminal 1 and found 8 always had reststance ie not closed. Terminal 3/4 went 1 or 0.6 ohms so it is opening and closing ok. My thought is the switch is broken and needs replacing, any other bits or processes to check? As always I bow to those of greater experience and knowledge! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Hard to remember, (my 13/60 switch is still in the "kit of parts"!!😁) but doesn't that switch turn and Pull? or is it just a two stage pull for side lights and again for heads?. One way to check would be to remove the B/R terminal and connect direct, or bridge with a short wire?, direct to the brown (live). That would rule out (or not) the switch as possible cause?. The terminal on the left of your pic looks a bit dodgy?. Another culprit might be the Dip switch?. Do you have a wiring diagram? if not I`ll scan and post mine?. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Ive recently had my 3 position pull switch apart as the first position mechanism had failed (third position is the instrument lights) and found the contacts well burnt. I removed the broken bits and changed the terminal connectors around so that the third position (effectively theres only two now) does all the lights, instrument and headlights, together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 2 hours ago, PeteH said: but doesn't that switch turn and Pull? or is it just a two stage pull It's just a two-stage pull 2 hours ago, PeteH said: The terminal on the left of your pic looks a bit dodgy? Yes, that #8 terminal looks pretty terminal. It may be possible to swap bits around as johny said, but dismantling switches is not everyone's cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Yes theres some small springs in there and the complete unit is available new at a price and unknown quality. If you buy second hand the internal contacts will probably be burnt the same as they have to take quite a current (another good reason for relays?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 14 hours ago, Iain T said: any other bits or processes to check? A bit obvious, but you did have the column stalk in the main headlamp position? Just checking... Try cleaning the switch with Servisol or the like, it may dislodge dirt or other deposits and enable a better contact again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 42 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: A bit obvious, but you did have the column stalk in the main headlamp position? Just checking... Yes but that doesn't mean the stalk isnt causing the problem! 1 hour ago, johny said: If you buy second hand the internal contacts will probably be burnt the same as they have to take quite a current (another good reason for relays?). I agree! To be honest I'll probably never only use the side lights, in todays world its side and mains as a minimum. However I'm hoping a debatable quality new switch 1 hour ago, NonMember said: using relays will be OK and keep it original. At some point in time terminal 1 had cooked and melted the blade cover! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, NonMember said: Yes, that #8 terminal looks pretty terminal There is big resistance over 1 and 8 terminals so I assume its burnt out and the now only trickle charge just isn't making it through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 4 hours ago, PeteH said: Do you have a wiring diagram? A trusty Haynes manual now well thumbed with comments in the margins! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Power to terminal 1, first pull should provide power to terminal 4 for column switch, side and number plate lights. Second pull, power also to terminal 8 for instrument lights. The switch pictured below terminals 1, top left is interchangeable with terminal 7, bottom left. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Iain, Pity I’m so far away I’ve got 5 of the buggers, all have good spade contacts, two very clean brass & look nearly new. You would have been welcome to one. Continunity between spades, over 3 positions; OFF - 1&7 FIRST - 1, 7, 6, & 4 SECOND - 1, 7, 8, & 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 40 minutes ago, Peter Truman said: Continunity between spades, over 3 positions; OFF - 1&7 FIRST - 1, 7, 6, & 4 SECOND - 1, 7, 8, & 4 Thanks Peter, here's a photo of the wiring diagram. Now another thought, as I have current to the lights via the blue/white there must be power going to the column light switch 11 from the brown/red. Therefore is it the column switch or have I pinched the blue/red somewhere. I have to confess I did inadvertently pinch the unclipped loom when closing the bonnet..... Saying that why are there two brown/red cables in my setup?? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 4 hours ago, johny said: third position (effectively theres only two now) does all the lights, instrument and headlights, together... I'm going with your idea, I'll never just use the sides. So I'm connecting the brown/red (to column switch) and red (to sides/interior) together and using the 3/4 spade. This shows 1 (no continuity) on my ohms meter when switch is in and 0.6ohms at 2nd and 3rd positions (continuity). Probably doesn't solve why the blue/red doesn't have any current at the relay but at least its hopefully ticked off one component. I'm not worried about excess current at the switch as I'm using relays. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Not sides on my vitesse just instrument lights. Sides/headlights controlled by column switch so extra load through a single contact in dash switch will be minimal - its the main beam that does the damage there without relays☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 31 minutes ago, johny said: its the main beam that does the damage there without relays☹️ That I can understand with 4 lamps burning. The new option is LEDs? For now I just want to get the bloody thing working with hopefully more voltage to the lamps. Another probably silly question, I'm fixing the relays on a bracket bolted to the nearside horn, can I earth the offside main and dipped to a suitable place near and not run the cable over to the relays? Also if I independently earth all four lamps do I then have to earth both relays? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 It would be nice to have the relays in the dry cabin under the dash and then run a cable from each to the lights. Either way both relays have to have one side of their coils to earth then the lights also have to be earthed. Anywhere will do as long as its a good connection but remember the bonnet is essential separate from the body so must be electrically well connected to it. Really the biggest benefit with a Vitesse is replacing the wire that supplies all 4 mains (and to a lesser extent also the one that does the 2 dips) as imo the existing individual wires in the bonnet to each headlight are ok for size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 This is where I put my relays on my Vitesse also wired up so all 4 lights operate on dip as well as main beam . For MOT purposes there’s an inline fuse which can be removed reverting to 2 lights on dip Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 3 hours ago, johny said: Either way both relays have to have one side of their coils to earth then the lights also have to be earthed. Thanks Johny, I'm ready for the next step on my 'journey'. Iain 3 hours ago, Paul H said: This is where I put my relays on my Vitesse I'm putting mine here, you can see the tape holding the PO's amateur wiring together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Relays are pretty good these days but their connectors can suffer, however my original bullet connectors have survived ok for 55 years in that area👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I've had another thought, I played around with my windscreen washers and when feeding the water pipes under the dash I could have pulled out the blue/white cable. I'll stick my head in the footwell and take a look tomorrow🤞. However at least I found the switch has issues, bit like me! Thanks for all your hrlp. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 It must’ve been quite something that happened to burn out one of those switches! I’ve taken one apart (not too difficult as it’s just a case of separating the metal front from the plastic back) and the switch element that joins the various terminals together is a chunky copper rod. It may be worth opening it to have a look as some judicious cleaning inside may be all that’s needed to get it back fully working again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 More investigation today, I know the blue/white mains circuit is ok but the blue/red dipped isn't. I plugged in the iffy lamp pull switch brown on terminal 1 and two brown/red on terminal 3/4 that is how the wiring diagram shows and how it was before I started, the problem terminal is number 8 which should feed the interior/sides. I pulled out the switch and had 12v at terminal 3/4, good. I then took off the column stalk cover and checked the voltage at the blue/red terminal, nothing! I checked the blue/white and there was 12v. This indicated the stalk is the culprit. To placate myself I run a cable from the relay end of the blue/red to near the stalk and checked if it was broken, it was fine 0.6 ohms. So I hadn't unplugged the cable when playing with my washers. So to conclude I think the pull switch needs cleaning/replacing but the main problem is the stalk switch. If it is the stalk then how is it removed? I can see I may have to unbolt the steering column clamp to access the cables then as I can't see any joints make my own connections to the new one? Am I wrong.......Help Please!!!! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just follow column switch wiring down the column and you will find a bunch of bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 you will have to drop the facia clamp as the harness tube is held in place by the lower column clamp Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 44 minutes ago, thescrapman said: Just follow column switch wiring down the column and you will find a bunch of bullets. Thanks, so the bullets are under the column cable cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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