Higher idle RPm & temp gauge

[Quack]

In what way? I feel it's quite important for me, somebody tried to previously steal my car in a residential area before i had an alarm, which meant they almost got away with it. So really i want to keep it for peace of mind.

Yeah i'll post back here after i replace the solenoid, like i say just fingers crossed that nothing else got fried in the process.

[NonMember]

If somebody wants to take your car, the alarm isn't going to stop them. And it's not even a particularly clear deterrent for the casual joy-rider. A big lock on the steering wheel is a far more effective deterrent, and much less troublesome (they don't "go off" randomly, they don't get fried by dodgy wiring, they generally last a decent few years).

[Quack]

I have all of that too, still just annoying if some joker wants to get in and start messing with stuff, I find they’re much less likely to sit there and smoke a joint with their mates if the alarm is going off, but yeah your point stands that they are clearly rather pointless since it’s now been frazzled by the solenoid 😂

[Pete Lewis]

lidl have a steering wheel lock on offer this week for a few ££s

cheap deterrent as Rob says  less hassle 

there is the question as to the wiring and why the harness and alarm have fried   something was taking on load/current that was in the wrong place 

Pete 

[Quack]

Well the alarm plugged directly in to the positive battery cable, and that cable linked to the solenoid, so I’m guessing when the solenoid fried it somehow sent the current back and overloaded the alarm?

For some reason too much current got to the alarm, but using a voltmeter and checking the battery it was putting out the correct amount. The alternator I can’t check because the car won’t run at the moment, but when I last checked it I recall it being fine

really not sure, my knowledge of electrical systems is limited, I’ll replace the solenoid but if you have any more concerns please say before I try to fire it up on a new solenoid and fry that too!

[Josef]

I’d do it in stages. Connect the solenoid to the battery and ignition, and then make sure it’s earthed. Turning the key to the start position you should be a able to hear the solenoid operate. Personally I’d remove and bench test the starter (it’s only two bolts and the wire to remove after the side valance is off). This you can do by holding the starter in a vice, connecting the positive terminal to a battery with a jump lead, and then touching the negative jump lead to the casing of the starter. It should spin up fast, see here for what that looks like. Then you’ll at least know both those parts are good, or not. When you put the starter back, then check the engine is well earthed as this is where the starter gets its earth. 

[Quack]

Perfect, exactly the kind of video i was looking for thanks. Will get back to you all next week afterwards...fingers crossed.

This post has been a journey 😂

[Quack]

p.s. when you say check the engine is well earthed, do you mean the grounding cable going from the chassis to the negative terminal of the battery?

[Josef]

50 minutes ago, Quack said:

p.s. when you say check the engine is well earthed, do you mean the grounding cable going from the chassis to the negative terminal of the battery?

There should be a ground cable from the engine to the battery, or the engine to the chassis and chassis to the battery. I was more meaning measure the resistance between the engine and the battery negative terminal though, it should be negligible. 

[Quack]

I'm pretty sure i don't even have that and yeah will measure with a voltmeter today to see if there's continuity.

[Bfg]

1 hour ago, Quack said:

p.s. when you say check the engine is well earthed, do you mean the grounding cable going from the chassis to the negative terminal of the battery?

I know it sounds pretty obvious ..when written down, but the chassis is not the engine.  Indeed they have rubber mounts between them.

On my own car ; the battery '-' (earth) leads directly to a bare-metal (but smeared with Vaseline to prevent corrosion) welded-on captive nut on the bulkhead (ie., body tub), primarily because the earth wires in the loom, the lamp units, voltage regulator and voltage stabiliser, the wiper motor and the horn each use the body shell for their earth.   But the battery's  '-' (earth) lead also continues (unbroken) down to the engine.  On this car - that electrical connection is via one of the sump's bolts (hex head set screws) which of course goes straight into the cast-iron crankcase. The engine also has a braided earth strap, between its engine mounting plate and the body (on the inner front wing). More commonly this earth lead goes to one of the bell housing to engine bolts.

In theory there is no reason to earth to the chassis at all on my car.  That may be different on a Herald, Spitfire or Vitesse, where some front lamps may be earthed via the bonnet, which is in turn hinged from the chassis.  As I understand it though, there should be an earth in the wiring loom for those. Fibreglass bodied cars however commonly use their chassis for earthing, from one end of the car to the other.

Hope that helps, Pete

[Quack]

Yeah just wanted to double check okay thanks I need to add an engine earth cable.

At the moment trying to figure out how to get the starter motor out, no clue how to gain access the bolts

[Quack]

Decided to just do it in car, am I doing it right? If so then yep starter motor is gone..

[Wagger]

You can get continuity through the throttle cable. However, if that is the only route for the massive starter current, you could weld the cable with the throttle open. I have witnessed that!

You must have a thick cable from the engine to the body of the car as all mounts are rubber.

[Josef]

You should be able to get a spanner on the nuts at the gearbox side and then use a socket on the starter motor side. Anyway, your test there in the video is only good if you have a known good earth between the engine and battery, which sounds like it might not be the case? Try with fitting the other jumper straight to the engine block perhaps? 

[Quack]

Okay so I did that and something is certainly happening for sure. Not sure whether it’s good or bad news, the starting motor is clearly able to move somewhat but I’m guessing the sparks are a bad sign?

also in terms of the ground, the fact that with the battery negative ground cable plugged, and then a jumper from battery positive to motor doesn’t do anything, but grounding on the starter DOES….shows…that my battery negative ground cable is bad?

 

 

 

[Wagger]

On most cars the engine earth strap is a thick uninsulated braided cable like the earth strap on the battery. It should go from a big bolt on the engine to another big bolt on the chassis or the battery. Do not rely on skinny wires for this, it has to carry over 200 amps when operating the starter. It you are getting sparks then something is very wrong.

[Quack]

Not sure if video loaded for you but yeah can see in the vid i have a braided one going from battery to bolt on chassis, however none visible going from engine to chassis/battery. I'll add one in.

However for now, need to figure out why im getting sparks when i give power to the starter motor, as this was never a problem before yesterday!

Was hoping you'd just say that sparks are due to me tapping it and not properly connecting 😂

[Iain T]

On a Vitesse the engine earth is a steel braided strap with one end attached to a bolt at the front of the sump and the other to the chassis. Not sure where a 13/60 earth should be. 

Iain 

[Josef]

51 minutes ago, Quack said:

Not sure if video loaded for you but yeah can see in the vid i have a braided one going from battery to bolt on chassis, however none visible going from engine to chassis/battery. I'll add one in.

However for now, need to figure out why im getting sparks when i give power to the starter motor, as this was never a problem before yesterday!

Was hoping you'd just say that sparks are due to me tapping it and not properly connecting 😂

Yes you’re likely right that it’s sparking cause you’re tapping the cables together. But the starter is trying to turn which is a good sign and tells us earthing of the engine is an issue. If you can’t see a cable between your engine and chassis or engine and battery as you say then that is definitely a problem. There may be more of course! But I’d start by fixing that one. As others have mentioned the original earth cables were uninsulted braided cables. Doesn’t matter if you use insulated or not so long as is thick enough to cope with the current draw of the starter. I’d run a cable from a bellhousing bolt and bolt the other end to the same point the existing battery negative terminal is fixed. 

[Josef]

Just checked. My 13/60 engine is earthed to the chassis via a strap attached to one of the lowest bolts on the timing gear cover at the front of the engine. Had a quick panic that mine was missing an earth too though as it was hard to spot!

[PeteH]

IF in doubt, a quick measure would be to run a Jump cable between the Battery Negative and the one of the Starter motor bolts which should prove (Or not) the viability of the Earthing?.

A BAD earth will shunt current all over the shop looking for a return path. Throttle cables are favourite. But smaller earth cables can suffer too.

Pete

[Quack]

Think best to take it off and do what you said Josef and Chuck a new one on from battery ground 

[Peter Truman]

Daughters Spit was only earthed thro throttle and choke cables when we got it, now got a good earth from a bell housing top bolt to a bulkhead bolt, a short length

[Josef]

44 minutes ago, Quack said:

Think best to take it off and do what you said Josef and Chuck a new one on from battery ground 

Well with the rustiness of the chassis connection it’d be worth having a go at giving everything a good clean back to bare metal and seeing what difference that makes. The strap looks intact from the video?