TC1 Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 Hi i am new to the club having recently been lucky enough to win a Spitfire 4 in an online raffle, (yes really), I own 2 other Triumphs which are slightly more modern (Stag and Dolomite Sprint), so i am still getting used to the basic charms of the little Spit. The car does appear to have been uprated slightly at some point in its life having lost its original engine and (colour scheme) and is now running a 1300 engine presumably from a mk3 Spitfire, i have a couple of small issues that i want to sort out. There is a slight squeal from the left hand front brakes when they get warm whilst breaking. I have not manged to look at this yet but would i be right in assuming that the brakes would have been upgraded at the same time as the engine ? or were mk1, mk2 and mk3 spits all the same in the break department and if not how can i tell what i have ? by looking at them. The other issue is the temperature gauge does not function correctly, it just keeps rising to HOT as soon as the car is started, although the car seems to be running and driving fine,(I have swapped out the temperature sender) the fuel gauge seems to work okay, the car appears to have been altered from the original positive earth to a more modern negative earth configuration. I suspect that either the Voltage Stabiliser is incorrect or wired up wrong, or there is a fault with the temp gauge, can anyone tell me how the VS should be wired up for a negative earth set up ?. Do temperature gauges go faulty ?(I have never experienced this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 Lucky chap! The early cars used type 12 calipers, later type 14. Same disc, no real difference in braking. Easy to tell the diffrerence, the t12 caliper is held together with 2 bolts. t14 with 4. Squeal could be lack of use, or lack of anti squeal shims. Unlikley to be anything serious. Engine number will tell you where the car came from. GE/GK herald, FD spitfire, but could be from a toledo or dolly 1300. It sounds like the temp gauge is faulty if a new sender does the same. The power for teh temp gauge comes from the same terminal of teh voltage regulator as the fuel gauge. And teh voltage stabaliser is attached to the back of the speedo. Check the wiring diagrams to see if your car had a voltage stabaliser, I know early heralds don't. So possible there is a mix of gauges? But the wiring for the temp gauge is 10V from voltage stabaliser (or if non stabalised, 12V) to one terminal on teh gauge, and the other terminal goes to the temp sender. What happens with the connector piulled off the sender? if teh gauge still zooms up there is a fault to earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 As Clive said, the brake calipers changed for Mk3 but not great difference in braking. I don't think your temperature gauge problem is the stabiliser, as that would affect the fuel gauge too (and would only make it read "high", not full-hot-when-cold). I think all Spitfires used the stabilised gauges but that doesn't necessarily guarantee you didn't get sold the wrong sender but, again, that would normally be less dramatic. Check for the wiring fault-to-earth as Clive said. If the gauge doesn't move with the sender disconnected, we're probably into multimeter tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 If you have access to a multimeter and a Hornby train set (other brands are available) you can test the gauge. The train controllers are a handy source of DC up to 12V ish. So you can set the rheostat to 10V using your multi meter and check where the gauge sits. Using 5V should give you somewhere in the middle etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 How fortunate! Lovely looking car. I have an MGB GT as well as a Spitfire. B's are notoriously subject to squeal with modern pads and discs and the 3M anti squeal shims are usually excellent. Also an MG Owners Club member has discovered that thick self adhesive tape correctly located has the same effect as the shims but I've not tried that. Thirdly, another member has opted for Peugeot 806 anti squeal shims shown. The legs fit inside the calliper apparently. He says it has been perfectly quiet since. Now that I've got onto this topic I expect that mine will start squealing too:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Neil Clark said: How fortunate! Lovely looking car. I have an MGB GT as well as a Spitfire. B's are notoriously subject to squeal with modern pads and discs and the 3M anti squeal shims are usually excellent. Also an MG Owners Club member has discovered that thick self adhesive tape correctly located has the same effect as the shims but I've not tried that. Thirdly, another member has opted for Peugeot 806 anti squeal shims shown. The legs fit inside the calliper apparently. He says it has been perfectly quiet since. Now that I've got onto this topic I expect that mine will start squealing too:( The old fashioned solution to squealing brakes was a bit of fag packet smeared both sides with copper grease. Cornflake packet would probably work too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 having just changed a VS on a Mk1 it was located on the baulkhead behind the passenger glove pocket you say you swapped the sender what part did you use ??? there are two differeing types available and cannot be mixed Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 Don't know where I saved this from probably elsewhere on the forum, but it may help and expands the knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 36 minutes ago, Peter Truman said: Don't know where I saved this from probably elsewhere on the forum I think it was Wimpus making his new fuel gauge read correctly on his 350,000km Spitfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC1 Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 Thanks guys for the welcome and advice, so after i had a look around the engine last night the engine prefix is RD which after a bit of googling states Triumph 1300FWD ? the temperature sensor i replaced it with was one i had in the garage for the Sprint (I believe they are the same) (I have ordered a another one just in case which states Spitfire) but i may just keep as a spare. (if i remove the connection to the Temp sensor it just doesn't work at all. Luckily i have a auto electrician who lives around the corner, he said he will have a look before i start pulling things apart, so i think i will let him investigate first, i have managed to get hold of a spare mk1 gauge but cannot be sure of its status. As for the brakes they look like the later calipers so i think i will just do a basic pad change and make sure the anti squeal shims are fitted. Here is a photo of my Triumph Emporium 😁 Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 TC1, Your Spitfire 4 (aka Mk1?) is nearly 60 years old, and like the rest of us may have a few parts that never left the factory with it. They are all, 'bitsa' cars these days, and the 1300FWD used the same engine, so no probs as a replacement. If only heart transplant was as easy! Temp senders work by being made of a material that has a 'Negative Temperature Coefficient', so that the same volts drive more amps as it heats - normal materials are the other way around. Triumphs OE sensors seem to last a long time, but modern replacements are made of toffee. Test what you have by checking the resistance with your multimeter - it should look like the graph below. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 I don't think the resistances are that low. Possibly if the scale was kOhms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 the gauges if bi metal (slow moving needle) are across the range all the same internals the only changes are colour of needles and rims chrome or black the black are just chrome ones they painted over black the VS gauge sender is a generic GTR108 if you happen to have wiggley needles there is no stabliser and a sender 121997 it doesnt mater which way round you connect the gauge but the VS is dedicated and has to be correct they are makerd (if a smiths orig) with I for instruments and B for battery Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 you could swop the wires on the fuel and temp gauge over as they are the same and that should tell you if it is the gauge at fault. If it was the stabilizer it would affect both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 5 hours ago, NonMember said: I don't think the resistances are that low. Possibly if the scale was kOhms Thank you, Rob, no doubt you are correct, but my point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 I can tell you that when i was experimenting with senders for my 13/60,I bought 3 x GTR108 from 3 different suppliers to measure the resistance. They varied between 560 Ohms to 800 odd Ohms.(Cold) This translated to gauge needle readings when at running temperature of 3/4, just over 1/3 and about half way on the gauge. I used the lowest one. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichTeaBiscuit Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 Absolutely beautiful car. I'm very jealous as I did try and purchase it when it was listed on auto trader, but the seller had already sold it on! I've since managed to get hold of my own red mk2. Glad it's gone to an enthusiast on here so I can follow it's journey. Make sure you post lots of photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC1 Posted February 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 I thought i would do an update on the non functioning temperature gauge which is now working correctly, there were actually 2 issues and maybe the previous owner had caused the 2nd issue by trying to hide the first issue. Turns out the VS was the fault this was not only a positive earth VS (the car is converted to negative earth) but was a blown positive earth VS. The previous owner had then wired it so the fuel gauge would register although erratically and the temp gauge would eventually work but rise to H and stay there. A new Negative earth VS correctly wired up solved the issue with Fuel and Temp gauge and now reads where i would expect just below N. However another fault was found while the VS was being investigated and that was a duff Voltage regulator, which causing an overcharging problem (maybe why the VS blew) so have carried out a Alternator conversion completely bypassing the voltage regulator. Charging system is now good and everything working as it should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 thats a good result chasing previous misguided repairs is a good leaning curve with strong tea and head scratching Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratton Jimmer Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 So pleased that your initial problems are behind you TC1. You have a lovely set of cars there so keep us all informed of your progress and how things are going generally. Welcome to the nuthouse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Franklin Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 TC1 - loving your stable of cars. Did you know that the Spitfire was originally registered in Devon with the OD plate. My late father was always petrified he would get a car with an S in front!!! Not sure they ever issued those though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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