Towing a Herald

[jagnut66]

Hi, 

A thought has occurred to me and I'm hoping there's an easy answer.....

If I were to need my Herald to be towed, namely (the old way) with a thick rope and given that there's no actual towing eye at the front of my car, what would you wrap  / tie the rope to?

Front crossmember? Suspension?

I'm talking about 'down the road' type of distance, not the one end of the country to the other type of scenario, for which I have relay cover anyway.

Many thanks,

Mike.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

I'd pull from the chassis, as low as it needs to be to clear the front valence and I'd tie to more than one point if possible ie not just one side of the front cross member, so that the pull is spread to both sides of the chassis. Anything else like the arb is likely to distort.

[PeteH]

OTT. for your needs I would Guess, But food for thought?.

Pete

[Mjit]

In most cases "A" frame towing frames are illegal for towing cars.

The "A" frame technically classifies the towed vehicles as a trailer and the max weight for an unbrakes trailer is 750KG.  Wikipedia has a Herald 1200 convertible down as 725kg so just about OK but looks like even a Herald 1200 saloon is 838kg so over the limit.  One site had a Herald Coupe at 749kg so you might want to empty the ashtray on one of those

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, Mjit said:

In most cases "A" frame towing frames are illegal for towing cars.

The "A" frame technically classifies the towed vehicles as a trailer and the max weight for an unbrakes trailer is 750KG.  Wikipedia has a Herald 1200 convertible down as 725kg so just about OK but looks like even a Herald 1200 saloon is 838kg so over the limit.  One site had a Herald Coupe at 749kg so you might want to empty the ashtray on one of those

Believe it or not, the opposite is true, provided all the brakes operate, either by overrun or electric operation an “A” frame IS allowed..in the UK. I use one all the time. Over the last near 30 years I have towed a variety of cars. Even Automatics. Behind a selection of Motohomes and RV’s In this manner. Even in Europe. However Spain and Portugal forbid it. In the USA we did 21.000miles towing a Toyota Tacoma 4wd auto crew cab pickup, behind our Winnebago.

Pete

Edited July 21, 2023 by PeteH

[jagnut66]

All of this debate will be 'food for thought'. 

So thanks to all and keep the ideas / information coming. 👍

Best wishes,

Mike.

[ahebron]

Didnt some small chassis Triumphs come with 'towing eyes' as an extension of the arb bracket (the u bolt with a loop on it)?
I am sure I have seen them .

[Pete Lewis]

yes they certainly did  

often found grooving speed humps  Ha !

Pete

[jagnut66]

3 hours ago, ahebron said:

Didnt some small chassis Triumphs come with 'towing eyes' as an extension of the arb bracket (the u bolt with a loop on it)?
I am sure I have seen them .

If someone has a picture of one in situ and / or a link for where to purchase these, I for one would be interested.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Josef]

3 hours ago, ahebron said:

Didnt some small chassis Triumphs come with 'towing eyes' as an extension of the arb bracket (the u bolt with a loop on it)?
I am sure I have seen them .

The Spitfire and presumably GT6 (I’ve never crawled under one of those!) have welded eyes on the rear of the chassis. I’ve always assumed these were for tie down when they were shipped abroad.

[PeteH]

Would Item 4 be what is refered to?. In my view, wrong orientation for towing, in that it would apply a torque motion to the fastenings?

Pete

[Casper]

Quote

Would Item 4 be what is refered to?. In my view, wrong orientation for towing, in that it would apply a torque motion to the fastenings?

I believe they are 'tie downs' for shipping.

C.

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Casper said:

I believe they are 'tie downs' for shipping.

C.

They are; not suitable for towing by, or certainly not long distances. Pulling out of a garage, maybe.

[jagnut66]

That explains why my car doesn't have them then, interesting though.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Pete Lewis]

for a simple rope tow  tie it round the front Xmember  under the engine   rather than any easier to reach suspension parts 

a nice loose knot so you can undo it

Pete

 

[JohnD]

"A nice loose knot" 

A Bowline is best.  Forms a loop in the rope end, which you can pass over the cross member, and  then thread the rest of the rope through the loop.

A useful variant is the Bowline on the Bight.   This just means that you double the rope and tie the same knot, and adds safety by bearing the load on two lengths of rope

OR, a Round Turn and Two Half Hitches.  

NB!   The hitches go in opposite turns, to lock them.   If they go the same way, they will be easier to undo, but not as secure.

NB 2  Whatever knot you use, wrap rags around the cross member - it has sharp edges!

John

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by JohnD

[PeteH]

I agree, probably designed to be shipping tie downs. likely never used, as most if not all the shipping back then was never provided with that provision, unless deck cargo. For ocasional towage, I have used a short chain wrapped around the frame and extended with rope. I once single handedly moved a Vittesse with no brakes either. Using a crude but effective drawbar. wouldnt try it again, but it was only a journey of about 3 miles, across Yeovil, one quiet early Sunday Morning, when one hoped🤞 the local constabulary where still asleep!.

Pete.

[Casper]

Quote

for a simple rope tow  tie it round the front Xmember  under the engine   rather than any easier to reach suspension parts 

I have to confess that I once bogged my estate down in a muddy field.  The front Xmember was half submerged in mud.  Messy job getting it tied on.  Be careful about the front valance if you do this.

BTW, John, a B on the bight is not tied in exactly the same way as a bowline, as it is the 'bight' that finishes it.  

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, Casper said:

I have to confess that I once bogged my estate down in a muddy field.  The front Xmember was half submerged in mud.  Messy job getting it tied on.  Be careful about the front valance if you do this.

BTW, John, a B on the bight is not tied in exactly the same way as a bowline, as it is the 'bight' that finishes it.  

Yes, but KISS!

[Graham C]

I was told that the looped u bolts on the front were used in the factory to tow the chassis along the track. When I purchase my spitfire ( when 3 years old) one was bent and replaced with a  u bolt. The garage ordered a replacement but I never went back to have it exchanged so it has 1 loop u bolt and a standard one.

Graham

[Pete Lewis]

14 hours ago, Graham C said:

looped u bolts on the front were used in the factory to tow the chassis along the track

unlikely as all early  cars never had them   the chassis would sit in a cradle on the conveyor chain and remain until it was dropped on its wheels on a plate track 

transport tie down is more likely the reason for adding them 

Pete

[Stratton Jimmer]

On 22/07/2023 at 16:30, Pete Lewis said:

tie it round the front Xmember  under the engine

Just make sure that you don't have a brake pipe alongside this bracket which you end up wrapping the tow line round and damaging.

[Unkel Kunkel]

Towing needs some co-ordination between towing and towed driver - moving off, slowing down and stopping .

The tower needs to be careful , looking fore and aft constantly, leaving  much longer stopping distances.

Some agreed signs  from the towed car that means, “OK “ and  “Stop! !”- headlights  horn 

Smooth take offs and no slack ’ in the rope 

Some electric Electrics   on for  horn, indicators , hazards if you have them and headlamp flash .

An “ On Tow “ sign.

Lack  of servo won’t be an issue but some brakes are needed

If there is one, don’t omit to de-activate the steering lock!

[Steve P]

I had to tow my Passat to  a garage recently as the clutch hydraulics failed (Second time), Bought a metal 3 part tow pole from Toolstation, Similar to the one the AA use.

Takes the stop start and braking jerks away you get with a rope. Not sure where you could hook it on a Herald though without a rope link.

S

[JohnD]

In competition, you are required to have towing points: Q13.1.3 "There must be substantial towing eyes.....".   While a solid eye is acceptable, the preferred modern style is of a length of wire cable with one end fixed to the chassis and the other with an eye spliced into it.     This may be coiled up out of the way, if the eye is marked by a coloured loop.

I'm fitting one to my race Vitesse.      The bracket on the left will be welded to the front of the chassis cross member, and the eye held behind the front valance by a very light cable tie.

Such a fitting could be made by anyone else and would provide a secure towing point.

John