Crimping pre-insulated spade connectors. How?

[chrishawley]

Time to admit defeat! I can't find a good method or tool for crimping pre-insulated spade connectors (PISC) in a way that's both tough and pleasing to the eye. I've got supposedly the correct tool (an Eclipse) but the results are dismal.

Classic 'Lucar' type spades - no problem. Got the tool for that and every one comes out hunky dory. But PISCs defeat me: I'd very much welcome any advice or suggestions.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

[johny]

What goes wrong, the plastic breaks up or the crimp isnt tight enough? Got to admit I prefer the usual spade connectors with a slide over plastic cover after crimping...

[chrishawley]

 

1 hour ago, johny said:

What goes wrong?

With the Eclipse tool it's mostly lack of any real secure grip on the wire even if the strands are folded back. With the 'stripping' type tool it's grip at the expense of a mangled blue bit (mostly blues I'm using) all crushed and flattened. Looks appalling!

[DanMi]

I think they are just cheap nasty connectors. i just use the proper lucar type with separate insulation as per original

[KevinR]

51 minutes ago, chrishawley said:

 

With the Eclipse tool it's mostly lack of any real secure grip on the wire even if the strands are folded back. With the 'stripping' type tool it's grip at the expense of a mangled blue bit (mostly blues I'm using) all crushed and flattened. Looks appalling!

some pictures of your problem crimps and the crimp tools would be useful to try and suggest alternatives

I use these https://www.toolstop.co.uk/eclipse-ect-rby-ratchet-crimping-pliers-p73609/ without a problem

[ahebron]

They are the devils crimp most often incorrectly fitted by ham fisted operators both amateur and professional on car voltage and scarily mains voltage.
The only way to correctly fit them is to use the ratchet type crimper as posted above.
As an electrician I have a set of these but my preference is not to use this type of crimp.
I prefer the uninsulated types as mentioned in this thread and either sleeve with the correct sleeves or heatshrink.
For these crimps I also use a ratchet type crimper that crimps both parts of the connector at the same time.
Proper preparation is the key.

Sorry to get sour on these crimps but I find them failing far too often due to incorrect crimping or preparation

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, ahebron said:

They are the devils crimp most often incorrectly fitted by ham fisted operators both amateur and professional on car voltage and scarily mains voltage.
The only way to correctly fit them is to use the ratchet type crimper as posted above.
As an electrician I have a set of these but my preference is not to use this type of crimp.
I prefer the uninsulated types as mentioned in this thread and either sleeve with the correct sleeves or heatshrink.
For these crimps I also use a ratchet type crimper that crimps both parts of the connector at the same time.
Proper preparation is the key.

Sorry to get sour on these crimps but I find them failing far too often due to incorrect crimping or preparation

I`ve noticed the greater failure rate to be on the more modern "thin" insulation cable?. On those the only answer apparently is to fold the wire back over the insulation?. I do agree the old "lucar" type without insulation and using shrink is a much better/neater result. If your really into belt and braces they can even be soldered.

Slightly off topic, I recently came accross a Battery soldering iron, circa £15 from Aldi. Only used once so far, but being wire free it resoldered a dry joint on a circuit board, without me having to set up extention cables to reach the site.

Pete

Edited February 21 by PeteH

[KevinR]

If you are looking for quality crimps, then you need to look at PIGD (Pre-Insulated Diamond Grip) crimps.

https://www.te.com/usa-en/products/brands/pidg.html?tab=pgp-story

They are qualified for aerospace applications, where high vibration is a given - I've never had one fail.

[68vitesse]

I use a rachet crimp tool for the insulated terminals, only thing I have to remember is to put the terminal in the tool the right way around.

Tool pointing away from me the right side of jaw crimps tighter, for wire, than left side for insulation also sides are shaped differently,can't say if all rachet crimpers are the same.

As with all tools they are designed for right handed users so being left handed it feels wrong.

Regards

Paul 

Edited February 21 by 68vitesse

[mpbarrett]

you must a rachet tool if you want a good crimp joint, its needs  the correct pressure to maker the cold weld in the joint. The rachet action makes you put the correct force every time you use it.
Good rachet tools have an asymmetric jaws so that they put less pressure on the insulated part of the crimp.

mike

 

[chrishawley]

Many thanks for various ideas. Most helpful. To nail this one down I'll see if my camera's up doing a few super-macro photos. Perhaps such would shed light on whether 'operator error' is the real issue here!!

 

[PeteH]

Stripping the wire correctly is also important.?

Pete

[Mjit]

Generally the answer is an expensive ratchet crimping too.  I say that as someone with has bought a cheaper one...then had to buy a more expensive one when the cheaper one turne dout to be a PoS.

[68vitesse]

Cheap tools often turn out to be the most expensive ones.

Regards

Paul

[chrishawley]

Here we go; 'photos as promised.

#1: Non-insulated terminal: Yup, happy enough with that.

#2: Pre-insulated using a non-ratchet 'W' toothed tool. Absolutely secure but looks horrid.

#3: The tool and #4 using the tool

#5: Result: Frail and easily dislodged wire.

I'm happy with any critique.

Guess I'm coming round to think that uninsulated terminals are just the better option for general application on classic vehicles.

 

 

[KevinR]

First point I notice is that you are crimping a blue crimp with the red jaw, not the blue jaw, so you are probably putting too much pressure on the crimp.

Second, it looks like you didnt start with a cleanly stripped wire

Third, I'm not confident about the state of the jaws on the crimping tool you are using.

Below are some pictures of my crimp tool, and its jaws - note, I dont have to worry which side of the tool the wire goes.

Then there is a picture of the prepared wire and the end result - a very strong serviceable crimp

 

[Colin Lindsay]

I've found that a simple way to tidy it up is to crimp the terminal correctly with a crimping tool, then slip about an inch of heatshrink tubing over the end and shrink to fit. That gives a lovely professional-looking finish.

[PeteH]

Has anyone else "discovered" that the "off the shelf" bullet terminals are actually a slack fit in Lucar connectors. I haden`t given it a thought until last week when I tried to make up a broken wire in the Boot of Plum, and found it wouldn`t stay in place?. In the end I unsoldered (a lucar) one from an old wire, and soldered it in place, Curtesy of the Aldi wireless solder iron. That worked,👍 I now have some brass Lucar bullets, ready for the next job!. Which I suspect could be tidying up the lighting wiring in the bonnet.

Pete.

[GrahamB]

I have had the same experience.  I had to use the new sockets with the new bullets.  Old and new do not mix.

[Colin Lindsay]

4 hours ago, PeteH said:

Has anyone else "discovered" that the "off the shelf" bullet terminals are actually a slack fit in Lucar connectors.

Yes, there's quite a difference in the originals and the remade versions. I had problems with the rear lights on the MK1 GT6 until I sourced originals from an eBay seller.

[Peter Truman]

I don't have a problem with the brass solder on bullets BUT I have also replaced ALL the bullet female connectors which I find appear to be a tighter fit, or maybe the old connectors have relaxed over 50 years, trying to retension them by compressing them usually ends up with them breaking