Waterless coolants

[Webbo]

Hi, can anyone tell me if waterless coolants are a worth while investment?

[Mike Crewes]

Webbo

 

Not sure, buses and lorries used to use parafin, but they have gone back to water - that might tell you something!

 

Regards

Mike

[Pete Lewis]

its known that you cant mix or refill empty systems  with glycol or OAT organic , everthing has to be fully cleaned or it can gel and block waterways

 

so guess it depends on the basic make up of waterless,   as the cars have lasted OK for years , I cant see waterless being an investment apart form 

not having to replace it from time to time .

 

Pete

[Webbo]

Thanks gents.

[AtRo Racing]

All the above is quite correct. The best one out there is Evans Waterless Coolant. As there is no water in the system you do not need to run a pressurized radiator cap. It is the steam that causes the pressure build up.

[Guest]

Webbo.

 

If you are not bothered about significant outlay to convert then go for it.

 

You need to clean out 100% of all the glycol / water within your system and companies such as Evans supply the cleaner to do that. It's a long tedious process that costs money and that's before purchasing the waterless coolant !! It's an expensive conversion and I'm not sure that the cost warrants the return.

 

If you are on top of your glycol coolant and flush it through every couple of years it will be just as effective as waterless for your needs I feel.

 

I use distilled water (cost next to nothing from the big stores) rather than using tap water or rain water and "Granville Sub Zero" anti-freeze in both of my classic coolant systems:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Granville-Sub-Zero-Blue-Concentrate-Antifreeze-Summer-Coolant-5-Litre-/142046882525?hash=item2112a76add:g:hssAAOSw-KFXfNjn

 

Any topping up required (not needed so far) would be by using the above already mixed.

 

One of the benefits of waterless coolant is that it can run at a higher boiling temperature - but do you really need that in the UK ?? I've taken my classics to a very hot southern France with glycol coolant and never had a problem. If your coolant system is in good working order and clean, then I think that is all your require IMHO.

 

Good luck.

 

Richard. 

[Clive]

Add to that that the waterless coolants are not as efficient at transferring heat (bad news on a GT6) and that they are harder to pump around the system (not really an issue to worry about, moreso if you had an electric water pump)

 

Iam not a fan

 

Also.... the pressure buildup is to do with the expansion of the actual coolant. Steam is only produced once that is boiling, which is at a much higher temp than 100degrees as it is under pressure (water boils at 71degrees at the top of everest as the pressure is much lower, at 13psi is will be approx 120degrees)

[68vitesse]

Didn't a recent repeat of wheeler dealers on a TR6 show this, think he had to run the car for a while with a water absorb ant in the system to remove the last traces seems a bit of a faff.

 

Only problem I can see with standard glycol antifreeze is how do you dispose of it.

 

Regards

 

Paul

[Guest]

Paul.

 

If you contact your COUNTY COUNCIL (not local council) and ask for your local Domestic Hazardous Waste Site location, they should be able to tell you.

 

I have just contacted East Sussex and it turns out that it is my local recycling site. Many of the sites these days are now privately run so there should be a website indicating what can be taken. However that said, my local tip does not specifically mention taking glycol; so a call to the County Council was necessary to confirm such. 

 

It's probably worth a call to save a wasted journey, especially if the operators at the tip are unaware they can take glycol products. A plastic container with a secure top will suffice for carriage / storage.

 

Hope that assists ??

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 If your worried about EG and the effects on animals and environment; use PG.

I run long life EG and good for at least 3 years, could be 5, will check brand.

 

Water-less stuff? If you get it for free including the water remover, try it. Otherwise don't waste your money. 

A better idea is water and 3%ish inhibitor; non better if temperature never drops to freezing.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

[Unkel Kunkel]

Unless I am missing the point somewhere I do not see the advantage of waterless coolants for motor cars.

For a substance that has one of the highest heat capacities available (twice that of glycol) and therefore one of the best liquids available for convection cooling, is easily available anywhere at virtually nil cost water has no serious rivals for me.

Perhaps it is just too common place and cheap and ordinary for its properties to be valued.

Liquid dihydrogen monoxide sounds much more impressive (almost dangerous) and strangley has the same properties...

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 I mentioned above I run EG. I am only using it now as temperatures can still drop to zero.

Once the cold weather as gone; it's back to water and inhibitor.

Happy days.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

[Chris A]

Liquid dihydrogen monoxide sounds much more impressive (almost dangerous) and strangley has the same properties...

 

I use it in my coffee machine, works a treat.

[juppy]

With the comment re heat transfer, one thing I found helped a lot was what is called "water wetter" the helped my modern car heat up quicker and therefore will transfer the heat to the radiator better.

[Unkel Kunkel]

Water Wetter is an anti corrosion additive and a surfactant -reduces surface tension of water.Reduce hot spots and cavitation and flow through confined areas like rad fins.

H2O has excellent heat capacity and as a coolant in a pressused system only has 2 draw backs - corrosion and danger from freezing.

Both these adverse properties well addressed by using suitable antifreeze.

Despite many peoples beliefs , there is no advantage in using very high concentrations of antifreeze above what is required to prevent frost damage with respect to the weather where you live as antifreeze is simply not as good a coolant as water.

I remember some chap expounding that he used "far more" than 50 % glycol on the basis that "RR Merlin V12 engines used "glycol only " as a coolant as it was "better than water".This was if course nonsense(.In fact they used 30% glycol 70% water)

 

'Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice" of course.I use a suitably diluted good quality antifreeze and change it now and again - about every 2-3 three years.There are other concerns in life...

[Guest]

Good points very well made.

 

In fact too much glycol anti-freeze in a vehicles cooling system causes more problems than it can solve and is detrimental to the efficiency of the cooling system.

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[Steve C]

The Chairman of our local multi-marque club used waterless coolant in his Stag, at considerable outlay. It still overheated, damaged its heads, and is now known to members as "the kettle". We have all told him to fit a Rover V8 and forget about having two Dolomite engines sellotaped together.

 

As my Herald has had water and glycol in it since 1965, I think I will stick with what I know works...

 

Regards

 

Steve C

[Guest]

Steve.

 

That's an excellent example especially with the Stag engine; which as we all know is quite a tetchy little thing  . I suppose in fairness there may have been underlying issues, but the waterless coolant certainly brought that to the centre of attention.

 

I'm remaining in the water & glycol squad   !!

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[GT6M]

Ok, ill churp in wid me own findings

 

1, got some of the stuff, an gev it to me Brother Ladd, woe does Speedway

His engine  seized

Others ont Speedway scene,said forget it, its useless, it,ll  seize yer engine

as lots had found oot

 

Me self, got some v v cheep at a race meet  I was dooing

was goingto { actually did } bung it in me new engine build

 

engine was de rusted internally, it wer spotless, cyl heed too. { acid dipped for a week }

bunged the stuff in, and one of the core plugs was dribbling, the yan above  engine mount on plug side

 

It dribbled, butt, I no nown this, as it wer,nt at first, but did ona a run t, Moffatshire show

 

Opened  bonnet, to check things OK wen there,

an the darn stuff ed caught fire on the block,  an was burning / sizzlin away nicely

there was a wee pool oft stuff in the indent above the engine mount ont block.

 

luckily for me, it wer in a spot where nowt above could ev caught fire

If it had been  at back, then its a good chance the  GB tunnel would ev caught fire,

 

So, decided there an then, this stuff coming oot , drained as much  as could,

an filled up wid water, then gev a good clean oot, an filled wid  normal anti freeze.

 

wen I rang em up t,say aboot it, they said it should,nt doo it,

and that it will fire, at v v high temps,.

 

ohh really,  yer engine outer block aint at v v high temps is it.!!!

there lots of info about this stuff catchin fire,

 

Should ev took a pic of it at time of fire,

butt, ne cam wid me then,

this pic is of the area  after I gev it fust coat of engine pent

butt, look closely, an ye can see where it got burned

 

 

 

M

[Colin Lindsay]

 

I'm remaining in the water & glycol squad   !!

 

 

Me too, for purely financial reasons - I've had a few drips out of the system over the years, plus the odd burst hose; water is so much cheaper to replace if something springs a leak in a 50 year old system.

[Chris A]

Me too, for purely financial reasons - I've had a few drips out of the system over the years, plus the odd burst hose; water is so much cheaper to replace if something springs a leak in a 50 year old system.

 

Should you need to top up a cooling system in an emergency water is easier to find. For example : 2 years ago the drain tap failed whilst I was out and to top up I called into a local bar/restaurant who kindly gave me all the water I needed for the car to get me back home

[daverclasper]

Defo in the standard antifreeze camp.

[dave.vitesse]

I stick to water and antifreeze. If you flush out the system regularly then replace with new antifreeze and de-ionised/distilled water then corrosion problems should be minimised. I would advice any TR7 2 Litre or Stag owner to flush out the system every year. If you have a TR7 or Stage with a repro or recon water pump it may well end up doing it for you anyway!

 

Dave