Gates Barricade Fuel Hose

[Guest]

Folks,

Having just received the latest copy of The Courier, I was sad to see John Embley's gorgeous Herald become the victim of a car fire as reported via p7.

John, we have never met but I offer my heart felt condolences regarding the loss of your lovely car.

I read within the same article that the TSSC Club Shop has in response to the above ordered in a quantity of Gates Barricade Fuel Hose - ref: GFH1025X which is great news as a number of Forum contributors (I include myself) have for want of a better phrase been banging on about the need to ensure that fuel hose is up to the job and that it is of R9 classification which deals with ethanol in fuel.

The GFH1025X hose is only 1/4" ID whereas GFH1031X caters for 5/16" ID - at the time of writing I do not know if the Club Shop has ordered this as well or if there is a plan to do so.

I assume that the Gates Barricade hose is equivalent to R9 spec and my gut feeling is that it is, pending confirmation. The advantage with the Gates fuel hose is that it is being sold with Imperial ID rather than the more common metric ID, which can cause some issues when trying to mate metric hose to Imperial fittings such as metal fuel pipes or carb fuel entry points.

Moss Europe sell the Barricade hose in 1/4" and 5/16" ID's - but I would certainly like to see the Club Shop stock the complete ID range and also be competitive with Moss so that Forum users support the Club Shop where that is financially viable.

Regardless of the above, may I ask that all Forum readers / users check their fuel lines and if you are running with anything less than R9 or perhaps the Gates Barricade hose, then this is the time to rectify that situation and get ethanol hose compliant; it may also be the case that your current fuel hose is way past its sell-buy date and starting to perish.

If you need additional persuasion to upgrade, then just look at the picture on p7 of the July Courier (No.457) - need I say more and could that be your car NEXT ?????????????????????

Regards.

Richard.

 

[AidanT]

I can but second what you say Richard, the pictures are most upsetting

I'm not sure it was on here, possibly Colin? , though, that R9 may now not be up to the job and there is an even better "R" level to go to to take account of the soon to be further increase in ethanol levels?

Sorry I can't find the post.

Aidan 

[dougbgt6]

I'm horrified to see the pictures but wondering what was the catalyst for the fire?  As has been mentioned on here before brake fluid is far more flammable than petrol. Brake fluid dripping on exhaust will catch fire, petrol wont. So what ignited the petrol? It's not just down to a leaking fuel pipe.

Doug

[Paul H]

When I first saw the pics of the Herald fire it was a prompter to finish off replacing the rubber fuel lines with R9 grade . Up to the carb set up I used 7.6 mm R9 grade and just purchased 0.5 metres of 5.6 mm to finished the job off. Despite using Vaseline I was expecting a sliver or 2 interrupting the fuel flow and when my Vitesse started fine and stopped 15 secs later I was sure I would find the culprit sliver. No I had put the inline fuel filter back the wrong way round ?, all sorted now 

NB I did enquiry with Moss about their Fuel tubing and they confirmed it was R9 though no markings on the tubing. 

Paul 

[yorkshire_spam]

I think the biggest issue recently has been the sale of hose marked r6 or r9 that was nothing of the kind. I had "new" "R9" pipes crumbling in 6 to 12 months and as a result imported a role of Gates Barricade hose (1/4 bore) a few years ago. None of the Gates hose I've fitted has needed replacing - although I keep an eye on it it's far more "fit and forget" than the other rubbish I was sold.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Gates hose I have is rated for the pressure of an injection system though. only carbs.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

As has been mentioned on here before brake fluid is far more flammable than petrol. Brake fluid dripping on exhaust will catch fire, petrol wont. So what ignited the petrol? It's not just down to a leaking fuel pipe.

 

8 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

I think the biggest issue recently has been the sale of hose marked r6 or r9 that was nothing of the kind.

 

8 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Gates hose I have is rated for the pressure of an injection system though. only carbs.

Hello Doug, 

I agree that petrol does tend to evaporate too quickly to ignite in 99% of cases. Who can tell how it started but most often, as you know, it is electrical with the insulating material melting and catching fire; the spread of which is swift and once the fuel pipe starts to melt then that really is the beginning of the end. I am certain we have all seen wiring that makes our eyes pop out and yet conversely it needs only a "live" wire to become detached and make a nuisance of itself with a spark here and there - more often than not under the dash.

It is likely that most classics still have a high percentage of the original wiring on board which in many cases has to be at least 40yrs old; for those looking at rewiring (big / small job) I would urge you to use Thinwall wiring which is the modern style wire. By its very nature it is slimmer than the old grade wire and also carries a higher amp rating across its cross-section; all colour coding is catered for, plus additional colours that can be useful if adding extra wires to new accessories. Additionally it is also a delight to work with especially in areas where numerous wires meet and in tight corners !!

YS - spot on with poor quality R9 hose and hose alleged to be what it is not; there are only a couple of companies that can be relied on for quality such as Codan, which is the hose I purchase. You are correct regarding the hose you have, it is suitable for low pressure fuel delivery only - which includes all carb fed engines. Barricade injection hose is a different beast altogether.

Regards.

Richard. 

[AndyCrews]

Very sad to see this.

 

I had a car (original shape Rover 216) catch fire on me while driving. It was put down to a fuel leak, probably a line fractured in the injection system.  Car was only 3-4 years old and in good order. What started the fire wasn't found.  Never got 2 kids in car seats out so fast.......had to stand at the side of the road while it burned.

 

Andy

[yorkshire_spam]

49 minutes ago, classiclife said:

t is likely that most classics still have a high percentage of the original wiring on board which in many cases has to be at least 40yrs old; for those looking at rewiring (big / small job) I would urge you to use Thinwall wiring which is the modern style wire.

I cut the wrapping off the spitfire loom and replaced all the higher current associated lines (head lamps etc.) with thin wall (then re-wrapped the loom), along with that the old fuse box in the engine bay is now redundant as there's a fuel and relay box in the passenger footwell.

[Pete Lewis]

how many have a depressurised out of date fire extinguisher in the boot ,  useless when you need it 

Ive only had one fire  a quick touch of weld on a rebuilt and wax oiled door assy in the garage on a workmate

you  get flames 7ft high ,  soon killed with a squirt of powder ... goes  everywhere stuff but alarming at the time 

doesnt matter how cautious and protective you are ...it happens 

fuel leaks from injection systems with a high pressure will make a wide mist spray  where as carb pressures are vastly lower and you tend to get a squirt not a spray so less volatile leaks .

Pete

 

[Badwolf]

I think my main fuel line is something like 8 or 10mm copper central heating microbore tube. I did replace the rubber connectors at each end last year. Do I need to worry?

[Pete Lewis]

That depends on just what spec the hose was 

Most are marked ,,,, so are the Chinese versions

I have asked Bern to check they stock both sizes

Pete 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Badwolf said:

I think my main fuel line is something like 8 or 10mm copper central heating microbore tube

Most likely 8mm (5/16") but if it is central heating pipe then probably 10mm as I believe that is the smallest microbore you can get.

[Anglefire]

You can get 8mm microbore pipe ?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wednesbury-wednesbury-microbore-copper-pipe-coil-8mm-x-10m/61031

[Nick Jones]

Cohline 2240 is good stuff. Available from Merlin MS amongst others. AVOID the eBay SAE J30 R9 stuff from Advanced Fluid Solutions in Kent and various others. It may look the part but it cracks up within 9 months.

Nick

[Guest]

Thanks Mark, that is useful to know.

A previous purchasers comment is pertinent: "As I have an older property 8 mm pipe and fixings are becoming very scarce. Screw fix are only a few places I could get what I needed".

Regards.

Richard.

[Clive]

Indeed, I recently bought a roll of screwfix 8mm copper to re-pipe the Toledo. Cheap as chips....

[Paul H]

36 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Cohline 2240 is good stuff. Available from Merlin MS amongst others. AVOID the eBay SAE J30 R9 stuff from Advanced Fluid Solutions in Kent and various others. It may look the part but it cracks up within 9 months.

Nick

I looked at Cohline piping but was put off by this forum thread  - 

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

 the 50deg c limit in an engine bay is futile ,  in fact  quite stupid in my opinion

Pete

[AidanT]

1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

Cohline 2240 is good stuff. Available from Merlin MS amongst others. AVOID the eBay SAE J30 R9 stuff from Advanced Fluid Solutions in Kent and various others. It may look the part but it cracks up within 9 months.

Nick

Nick. I purchased this but it was in May 2016 and I've had no problems at all

Maybe a bad batch?  Who knows!

Aidan

[Guest]

As the original thread focused on Gates Barricade, it will be interesting to see what TSSC HQ has to say about ID options - as Pete has contacted Bern. The benefit of this particular stocked Gates is the Imperial ID.

If looking elsewhere then Codan EN080 7.9mm ID may be suitable for some applications if 8mm metal fuel pipe is being used.:

7.9mm internal diameter fuel hose to SAE J30 R9 standard. This is a low permeation hose and the only type suitable for the high Ethanol content in modern fuels. Traditional hose is prone to perish and lead to early failure, but this triple layer FKM - NBR - CSM hose with PET reinforcement is resistant to todays aggressive fuel formulations. Rated at 7 bar (101 psi) working pressure, 62 bar (899 psi) burst and -30C to +130C. Brand marked, fully traceable and made by leading OEM supplier.

Suitable for fuel injection systems, but equally applicable to carburettor use. This is a flexible, small bend radius hose and will keep it's shape even in the most confined space of an engine compartment.

Codan 6mm (5.6mm ID) is code EN081.

Regards.

Richard.

 

[PeaTear]

Very interesting thread and unfortunate for the owner of the car that brought this about. I've been wanting to change the fuel hose in my spitfire as it does look and feel quite hard and dried out, but been put off due to the amount of stories of poor quality rubber available. My question is what size of ID hose do I need.  It's a mkiv 1300

[Guest]

If in doubt, pull a hose off and compare with a drill bit - that will give you the ID of the hose on your car.

I'm certain a fellow Mk IV owner will be able to say.

Regards.

Richard.

[NonMember]

Fuel lines on the Mk3 were 1/4", on the 1500 I think they were 5/16". Sorry, I don't know when it changed.

[Pete Lewis]

If you dont have any measuring equipment like a vernier , mircometer dividers or whatever 

Use an adjustable spanner  as agap gauge  set the jaws to  fit over the metal pipe   then measure the jaw gap with a ruler or tape measure

Unless someting hybrid has been used it will be either 1/4"  6mm   or 5/16"   8mm

Or use a small 6 or 8mm af spanner ...   simplze

Pete

[yorkshire_spam]

On my Spitfire 1500 almost all the fuel hose is 1/4", there is (if I remember rightly) 1 section at the rear that's 5/16" (I think between the solid hose that comes out of the tank and the next rigid section, but I'm working from unreliable memory)