thescrapman Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 What Kevin didn't mention is that there is a restriction in the oil gallery caused by the distributor drive. Best place to fit an oil pressure gauge is the plug nearest the front of the engine, gives a woerst case reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 So they put the pressure switch in the wrong place - what a design! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 the psi switch only lets you know its very low , most wont see the light on till after they hear the knocking , warning lamps ...waste of time ....needs a big bell !!!! hooter, siren etc. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: the psi switch only lets you know its very low , most wont see the light on till after they hear the knocking , warning lamps ...waste of time ....needs a big bell !!!! hooter, siren etc. Pete Or a video of £50 notes flying out of the window... Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 45 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: the psi switch only lets you know its very low , most wont see the light on till after they hear the knocking , warning lamps ...waste of time ....needs a big bell !!!! hooter, siren etc. Pete even so surely it would be best to have it (and gauge if fitted) where the pressure is likely to be the lowest🙄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 yes i agree thats a common take off point pretty much directly after the filter the main gallery is quite large i dont see the need on any normal use to use an octopus set up and you dont hear on Kas worrying about start up knock ( or do you ) ??? i still rate audible is better than visual talking of low pressures i wish this silly weather would make its mind up hot sunny wet windy all mixed up Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 Anyway Mjit please keep us informed on your findings👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 9, 2019 Report Share Posted August 9, 2019 Alternative (and simpler) take on the "Octopus" with fewer arms. It turns the main oil gallery into a ring main. The external rocker feed is unnecessary (unless you are running roller rockers with needle rollers) and is best avoided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 12 hours ago, Nick Jones said: The external rocker feed is unnecessary (unless you are running roller rockers with needle rollers) Nick, you've got me worried now. Do needle bearings need that much oil? I wouldn't have thought so but ... Cheers, "Roller Rocker" Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 Richard, I didn't know you had them, but I do know who else has, Mark Smith on his GT6 Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 12 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Alternative (and simpler) take on the "Octopus" with fewer arms. It turns the main oil gallery into a ring main. The external rocker feed is unnecessary (unless you are running roller rockers with needle rollers) and is best avoided OR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 without an engine to examine ...so how much does the dizzy drive strangle the feed across the gallery i didnt think it was connected???? any clues Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said: I didn't know you had them, but I do know who else has, Mark Smith on his GT6 Thanks Doug, I'll ask him next time. But I know Nick has normally thought these things through. I suppose the thing about the rockers is that it's a reciprocating action (a few degrees one way then back and repeat) instead of continual rotation, and a high side force from the valve springs. This is not good for a sleeve bearing such as the normal factory rockers as all the wear is in the same place. But at least what oil there is must be forced into a very small gap (until the surfaces wear) and in any case it tends to sink to the bottom of the bearing where it's needed most. The oil should sink to where it's needed most in the roller/needle bearings too. I remember rejecting an external feed when the engine was being built as I knew of its bad reputation. I hadn't heard of the restrictor at that time, and one thing that worried me was the more open structure of the needle bearing and I envisaged oil pouring through and out to the top of the head, with the consequent starving of the main bearings lower down in the engine. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 It was an East Berks meeting about three years ago, we were talking about noisy tappets and I asked if needle rollers were any good? Mark said he'd bought a set ten years previously and never got around to installing them. (Typical Mark!) He went home that evening, dug them out and by the next meeting they were fitted. So it's all my fault! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 Hi, I have an abortion of this concept fitted to my engine. It scares me & will be the death of the engine unless I remove it. Front oil galley plug size? Cheers, Iain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 well 6 cyl. appears as 118686 1/8" ( presumed bsp thread) rimmers sell stick of 9 PU1404 if you want some spare !!! 4cyl is easy its 101022/ SH605041 being a 5/16" x 24 unf setscrew 1/2" long I dont see the plug in the hardware catalogue to confirm threads Pete 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted August 10, 2019 Report Share Posted August 10, 2019 Hi, I always assumed grub-screw? Should be BSP screw with the washer? My abomination uses a nylon hose. Its has never been seen full with oil in it when engine idling. Can't imagine that it will get any fuller with higher RPM. Until I see flow figures the "Octopus ting" Appears as useful as the block to head deal. Cheers, Iain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted August 11, 2019 Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 My new engine has (see other thread) roller rockers and an external feed,even with a 1mm restriction there was far too much oil in the rocker cover,so much so it filled up the catch tank from the vent with oil in about 200 miles,trying to work out if it is suffering from too much crankcase pressure blowing to the top. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 11, 2019 Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 SteveP, have you seen the SIZE of the galleries that empty the rocker chamber down through the block? Your exeternal feed must be emptying the sump if it filld the catch tank that fast! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 11, 2019 Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 yes thats a bit concerning , have to agree with john . theres some large drain holes in there Pete edit not ' have to ' just agreed. Ha ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 11, 2019 Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 On 10/08/2019 at 09:59, rlubikey said: Nick, you've got me worried now. Do needle bearings need that much oil? I wouldn't have thought so but ... I dunno either, but I've seen it quoted as the original reason for the creation of the external feed, then hijacked as a "improvement" for the masses. Many roller rockers actually have plain bushes where they run on the rocker shaft anyway. And your point about the oil escaping more readily through needle rollers is well made....... On 10/08/2019 at 10:33, Pete Lewis said: so how much does the dizzy drive strangle the feed across the gallery i didn't think it was connected Actually the x-sectional area around the dizzy drive is greater than the rest of the oil gallery. The IMO the bottleneck is just rearwards of there see 3rd post, page 2 for picture and explanation http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/5712-competition-oiling-draft/page/2/#comments Mind you, I ragged my old Vitesse engine for 70k (on top of unknown but considerable mileage in at least two previous cars) without any oiling mods beyond the spin-on adaptor, and when stripped the bearings were still absolutely perfect in spite of being mere Glacier aluminium tin ones. Crank only needed a light polish to go again on standard size. Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 11, 2019 Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 Theres no justice in the world is there? Bought my Vitesse from a vicar then Ive pootled around since but the bigends still only lasted to 40k and the mains 70k☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted August 11, 2019 Report Share Posted August 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, johny said: Theres no justice in the world is there? Justice......? or oil changes? Regular oil changes and a spin-on conversion to prevent the death rattle (which is alot less than ideal, whatever Uncle Pete would have us believe 😛). Our vicar still has a Vitesse...... dunno how his bearings are but the car is very smart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 12, 2019 Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 done both so the only thing I can put it down to, other than justice, is that I found the original oil pump not great due to excess end float. This didnt look like wear so was probably from new and obviously meant that the oil pressure although never low could have been better. Now with new oil pump fitted we'll see how long these bearings last..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 12, 2019 Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 hey I dont mind any actions to avoid the death rattle just its not a problem to get paranoid about theres more advantage in easy filter change than a few seconds waiting for the pressure to fill its hardly a death rattle , just a rattle or they would never have lasted all these years thats all the number still running well is proof I feel . having seen a few rollers broken up or fractured then you have to open the tappet to stop spring bottoming are another improvement must have best avoided . pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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