GT6 front road springs and dampers.

[Adrian Saunders]

I’m rebuilding the front suspension of my GT6 mk3 and I need some help with the coil springs and dampers. I’m going to remove the springs and check the free length and wire diameter. The dampers are Koni Classic. Are the free lengths and wire diameters if supplied springs available? The dampers are adjustable. Are these the ones that need the spring to be removed and the damper compressed to solid to facilitate adjustment? 

[Clive]

Konis, the best! Yes, they adjust as you say, there is a split plastic washer that needs removing to do the adjustment. 

http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/springs.htm helps, but not with wire gauge. (GT6 12 1/2")

To test the rate of the spring, I have had success by standing on teh spring and using my weight to compress it. 

So me at 160lbs standing on a gt6 spring should compress it .... my weight/spring rate= 160/200=4/5" or 20mm. Obviously if you are heavier, or have a heavy friend it gets more accurate. I use a bit of wood on the spring, and near an internal corner of the garage so I have 2 walls to brace against, it is a bit tricky! Glamorous assistant for measuring the spring length.

[JohnD]

Agree with you clive, but use the equation the other way around if you don't know the spring rate.

Your weight (lbs) divided by the compression it causes (ins) gives the spring rate in lbs/in, still the usual.units in the metric age!

[Clive]

8 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Agree with you clive, but use the equation the other way around if you don't know the spring rate.

Your weight (lbs) divided by the compression it causes (ins) gives the spring rate in lbs/in, still the usual.units in the metric age!

Yep, need to rearrange the equation to calculate the rate. I tend to measure in mm and convert to inches, (1inch=25.4mm).

so as John says, weight in lb/compression in inches.

(poor nights sleep.....)

[JohnD]

Nah, clive.      Newtons per meter, should be!  N/m.

I supose that's why its usually still lbs/in!

[dougbgt6]

Adrian,

You probably know, but I'll say it. Get hold of a proper spring compressor, a plate at either end and long threaded studs. Not those horrible dangerous things that clamp on the sides of the springs and ping off at high velocity when you least expect it! 

When I first got my car the PO had used it to tow a boat far too big for it. The rear spring was broken and the front, although standard, 2" shorter than when they started. After 40 odd years I replaced the front again, principally because of extreme rust, however I found them no shorter than they should have been. 

Doug

[Clive]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Nah, clive.      Newtons per meter, should be!  N/m.

I supose that's why its usually still lbs/in!

I know... but when you start explaining weight is a force so should be in Newtons, and what we think we are measuring when we stand on the scales and glance down (then grimace) is our mass, peoples eyes glaze over. So we stick with colloquial language...

 

[NonMember]

8 minutes ago, clive said:

I know... but when you start explaining weight is a force so should be in Newtons, and what we think we are measuring when we stand on the scales and glance down (then grimace) is our mass,

No, technically, the weighing scales are a force measurement device, so they do actually measure your weight. Unfortunately, they then display it in units of mass, since that's they intrinsic characteristic of your body that is independent of local gravity.

[Colin Lindsay]

3 hours ago, clive said:

I know... but when you start explaining weight is a force so should be in Newtons

Which is probably why they put Newton on the Pound... note, that is.

So you can happily claim that one pound equals one Newton.

[dougbgt6]

There used to be a one pound note?!! 😲

When I was blagged into becoming EB AO I was given a shopping bag containing documents and £240 worth of out of date currency. 

I should empty out your wallet Colin the bank will change them, if they’re open. 😆

db

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Can't, all the half crowns and ten shilling notes will go everywhere. Took me years to save them, too. Gonna take them to the bank and exchange for drachma for my next holiday.

[Adrian Saunders]

13 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

Adrian,

You probably know, but I'll say it. Get hold of a proper spring compressor, a plate at either end and long threaded studs. Not those horrible dangerous things that clamp on the sides of the springs and ping off at high velocity when you least expect it! 

When I first got my car the PO had used it to tow a boat far too big for it. The rear spring was broken and the front, although standard, 2" shorter than when they started. After 40 odd years I replaced the front again, principally because of extreme rust, however I found them no shorter than they should have been. 

Doug

Doug, I only have claw type risk your family jewels spring compressors. Can you point me at some better/safer ones? Does the club sell them? 

[Dick Twitchen]

Adrian, The club shop does sell them, search 'Spring Compressor'.  Where I sourced mine from, much more reassuring to use and frequently lent out!

Dick

[Colin Lindsay]

When / if you get one grease the threads well. I ruined the first one I bought for my first Triumph, on it's very first use,  by using it ungreased and had to get another. The second one has lasted twenty seven years so far...

[dougbgt6]

3 hours ago, Dick Twitchen said:

much more reassuring to use and frequently lent out!

Yes, a lot of Areas have them, but not East Berks ! We hire one from Thames Area, deposit and £5 hire. 

Failing that £50 from the club shop, which I think is an OK price, they're £60 on FleaBay. You only use it once or twice, but if you've got one you're everybody's friend. 

Doug

[Adrian Saunders]

On 27/04/2020 at 10:52, dougbgt6 said:

Adrian,

You probably know, but I'll say it. Get hold of a proper spring compressor, a plate at either end and long threaded studs. Not those horrible dangerous things that clamp on the sides of the springs and ping off at high velocity when you least expect it! 

When I first got my car the PO had used it to tow a boat far too big for it. The rear spring was broken and the front, although standard, 2" shorter than when they started. After 40 odd years I replaced the front again, principally because of extreme rust, however I found them no shorter than they should have been. 

Doug

Doug, so, my compressors are the double-claw variety which go around half the wire and certainly look secure. Unfortunately, they’re too big to fit in between the coils of my springs. 

[Clive]

The trouble is our springs are fairly small diameter. I had some single hook ones, and I ground them down when I first had cars, a loooong time ago so I could make them work. Until a few years ago when one slipped and a spring launched itself. Bought some cheap twin hook type and the hooks are space wrong, fine for modern cars but not ours. Luckily my spit springs are short enough not to need a compressor, but my Toledo is a different matter.

If you have some 8mm?? plate, a holesaw and some studding the safe type compressors are easy enough to make if you can be bothered. Easier to borrow.....or if you must, buy.

[Adrian Saunders]

Right, springs are off and I’ve checked them. 12.5” free length, 7/16” wire diameter and, employing the “sit on the spring and get the wife to measure the compression” method, they are definitely no more than standard rate. The compression check didn’t go too well, I was wobbling too much. I’m going to do it again tomorrow with a plank secured at one end and nominally level, won’t be as wobbly. Thing is, I’ve got std front springs but the rear spring has a 3/4” lowering block underneath it so, if I’m not careful, I’ll be guiding Chinooks into landing. The only thing that we’ve seen going to and from Birmingham airport this week. I guess I need firmer/shorter front springs to level the car? 

[Adrian Saunders]

Are there any firmer, shorter springs available that don’t need an adjustable seat on the damper? I remember some with a ferocious rate of 660 lb, they didn’t need adjustment. 

[Nick Jones]

Something in the region of 330/350lb/in with a free length of 10 to 10.5 works well. These represent about as far as you can go without spacers with a fixed seat damper. As a bonus you can usually remove and fit without a spring compressor. Faulkner’s springs on the south coast do a 10” 350lb one from stock at a reasonable cost.

Have these on my Vitesse and some 10.5” 330lb ones (Moss??) on my GT6. Both ride well (on Konis) and not too low

Nick

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

              I am working on the late(much missed Oldtuckers Vitesse to make it a bit more every day friendly!)

The springs on it now are marked 480!(teeth rattling) but probably perfect for sprinting1

So it has adjustable spring seat so does that mean I can use springs of any length spring from say 9" to 10.5"? and adjust the seat to get the ride Hight I want?

I was thinking of 350lbs as Nick suggested.

I was thinking of having it on the road this year but this bug has stopped that!

So I have finished up taking lots of it apart!!!! not that Alans work was bad but aimed at Sprinting

I have decided to fit an Denso alternator(had a spare one lying about and seemed a shame not to?)and I can get rid  of the regulator and move the fuse box to inside and more fuses etc.

I have reposition the remote oil filter and removed the heater/cooler unit and tided up the rear to front oil feed

So now only the new seat belts to fit and the rebuilt gearbox/overdrive plus the 150 carbs plus lots of other jobs(still not going anywhere and Spitty is ready for the off and champing at the bit!)

A photo of the chaos!

Roger

 

[Clive]

13 hours ago, rogerguzzi said:

Hello All

              I am working on the late(much missed Oldtuckers Vitesse to make it a bit more every day friendly!)

The springs on it now are marked 480!(teeth rattling) but probably perfect for sprinting1

So it has adjustable spring seat so does that mean I can use springs of any length spring from say 9" to 10.5"? and adjust the seat to get the ride Hight I want?

I was thinking of 350lbs as Nick suggested.

I was thinking of having it on the road this year but this bug has stopped that!

So I have finished up taking lots of it apart!!!! not that Alans work was bad but aimed at Sprinting

I have decided to fit an Denso alternator(had a spare one lying about and seemed a shame not to?)and I can get rid  of the regulator and move the fuse box to inside and more fuses etc.

I have reposition the remote oil filter and removed the heater/cooler unit and tided up the rear to front oil feed

So now only the new seat belts to fit and the rebuilt gearbox/overdrive plus the 150 carbs plus lots of other jobs(still not going anywhere and Spitty is ready for the off and champing at the bit!)

A photo of the chaos!

Roger

 

 

Roger, have you played with the front damper settings? Both our spits have the 480lb springs. Yellow spit is compliant and comfy, but the mk3 is harsh. The yellow car has Konis, plus the dampers are set towards the softer end of adjustment. the mk3 is as it came to us, but when I next use it I will soften the damping (AVO's). May be worth a try?

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Clive

                   No I have not you may be onto something they AVO,s 

What I will do lubricate them first and wind them one way or the other and count the clicks to see what Alan had them set at(not that it is going anywhere in the near future!)

I have just found a MK2 Vitesse dash assembly in the other shed(Tent) and it has 5 dial holes so I may re veneer it as I have a piece the same as I used on Spitty and it is a nice pattern not to in your face if you know what I mean?

Then there is all the wiring to sort out and the seat belts(does anybody have the details for fitting 3 point in the rear of a convertible ?) while I have all the trim out!

Plus fit the 150 carbs and O/D gearbox! (I feel tired now just thinking about it all)

Roger

[TrafficMan]

On 27/04/2020 at 00:04, Adrian Saunders said:

I’m rebuilding the front suspension of my GT6 mk3 and I need some help with the coil springs and dampers. I’m going to remove the springs and check the free length and wire diameter. The dampers are Koni Classic. Are the free lengths and wire diameters if supplied springs available? The dampers are adjustable. Are these the ones that need the spring to be removed and the damper compressed to solid to facilitate adjustment? 

Adrian, may I ask, what colour your Koni dampers are ?.     The reason I ask is that I know that Koni produce black or red dampers in their Classic range. I want black for my late 73 GT6 being 80-1388 Front & 80-1389 Rear.  Rimmers tell me I can only get those ref. numbers in red but Demon Tweeks tell me they can get them in black.  Rimmers slightly cheaper and only down the A46 from me.   Are you able to shed any light ?         Many Thanks - Paul. 

 

[Clive]

3 hours ago, TrafficMan said:

Adrian, may I ask, what colour your Koni dampers are ?.     The reason I ask is that I know that Koni produce black or red dampers in their Classic range. I want black for my late 73 GT6 being 80-1388 Front & 80-1389 Rear.  Rimmers tell me I can only get those ref. numbers in red but Demon Tweeks tell me they can get them in black.  Rimmers slightly cheaper and only down the A46 from me.   Are you able to shed any light ?         Many Thanks - Paul. 

 

Cheapest supplier of Koni is (was) Bastuk. I thought they were all red? Mine are, though mainly faded to orange after all these years.