Remote Brake Servo Spitfire 1500

[Bob Owen]

For my own and the safety of other road users!!!, I want to add a brake servo to my Spitfire 1500.

Any recommendations as to the best to fit?, 

Moss have two in their catalogue: Lockheed £202 and aftermarket £97

and also, any recommendations for installing process etc?

 

Many thanks

 

Bob

[poppyman]

A pal has one of these kits on his Cortina and is really good. Not sure if they do a full kit for a Spitfire? But i'm sure it could be adapted.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Remote-Brake-Booster-Servo-2-3-Ratio-LR17792-for-Ford-Capri-Anglia-Cortina-MG/163540981685?epid=16025208929&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2613cd57b5:g:wd4AAOSwtSRdEEKc&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkfOCvCjTOBWK8pwriaolq5tNJv%2FZVzA1hAFmaqIP4LbUGHaARib8lN9eGDp0kzgDpRNiPzfzKgZPegH9bPehHmlB8XhAuGXqO1ZQTEI6Od4TbpsokQ8ghq7%2BnAgz5%2BsGOOwaOANILmV9ys6BRa7HNMwWSIdZNatRSlnxKXqQmfklcNCWmA1L7vy7FoUW5VVlTp613u%2ByDQFTq49qhUf1M%2B0ddbOXucj4YjG%2FOy09l6pPXaCCQKhvNAJ1EejtFNv0vCW4IuKKne%2FZjyR2lwVec7QKWoxfU8wO01q5K2770zc3NUL2X2zX7TzSKjoEK%2BIzZov33jN2EdFuJsixtVm26Zvz4H8RBzu3XS%2BX7xJ6glAj9DeejNGX5puBP5B58JtQNqZpS%2BcyqMHUDZCpgra665OCp6sBtFK3YrB%2F75%2Bk0Wvy6uTIFN1H0loWL19hXHg1lnn2ycQVUHpNlr6PT35EQev6NMwH6YZntPodBHJIPBox9ue9qJ2XOZJaVU26zo1SLFHY4k7FG6FWboEAvNxS3WmrIWNGQTgsVYTwV9H%2BgUfBErNDDon6P%2BvBtS1di4Ozbqz7QWDMa0Nsov043THi2spBH5pFZlTJZNOvB9I028vChVtyFlhgbpWodiR7oIa5Eaqsum7HW%2FOCPo5O2jBYLta0T%2FWNh%2BoCxiTT4r3gRkgamV9jkbNzEi16iO23mI2BddWyf1ILEYMGhpiKuOHBYtw4u5t3zIQdswLfIjVeb9YqLjpN3flCjhI6UhhOnMDBgGR9Wa4rXAX6PeIR8nUC6qeXzr5FMGgyO2wtMkcsqj%2B4%3D|cksum%3A16354098168570afbbc491174cb6978f21a36399bbae|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

Tony.

[Pete Lewis]

thats the pretty standard one size fits all sold by the many  at £51 its a good buy 

there are 2 ratios out there for sale   dont remember  sort of 1.9   or 2.3   

if the pedal is too light increase the M cyl bore diameter .

 

as a side is your 1500 split line as most were  that really complicates a simple add on kit 

Pete

[Bob Owen]

Thanks, by split line do you mean tandem?

[dougbgt6]

I think he does! 😆

The split is between front and back? 

You would want the servo installed before the splitter, but if that’s difficult bear in mind the late GT6 has it on front only.

Doug

[Bob Owen]

Thanjs, I was thinking of front only.

[Rabbit]

I have a servo fitted to my MkIII Spitfire. The height must be taken into account to fit  on the bulkhead. I bought a complete one from a Mini company that measures 7-1/4 inches. A previous one was 8.5 and too tall too fit. My Spitfire stopped OK but the feel, with servo, is more reassuring. Also it has 4 pots on front, once again, probably not needed but it stops more like my modern than it used too. Sorry, purists, but I like the brakes more now. 

[Bob Owen]

Great, thanks for this

Bob

[Unkel Kunkel]

6 hours ago, Rabbit said:

I have a servo fitted to my MkIII Spitfire. The height must be taken into account to fit  on the bulkhead. I bought a complete one from a Mini company that measures 7-1/4 inches. A previous one was 8.5 and too tall too fit. My Spitfire stopped OK but the feel, with servo, is more reassuring. Also it has 4 pots on front, once again, probably not needed but it stops more like my modern than it used too. Sorry, purists, but I like the brakes more now. 

This relates to the kit sold by Rimmers or others- 

The height  issue on the bulkhead seems to be related to the  servo bracket.

By cutting the bracket in two about 15 mm above the lower angle of the bracket as indicated  then overlapping the cut edges, the the servo can sit a bit lower yet still clear the deck of the bulkhead - and the two  overlapping parts welded up.

( then sprayed  to match the  mcylinder brackets in non-original colour ...)

[PeteH]

I`v had this on my "watch list" for some time now. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-HERALD-1300-TOLEDO-SPITFIRE-GT6-BRAKE-SERVO-KIT-TT3949-SEN43-13H7939/264485133899?_trkparms=aid%3D1110009%26algo%3DSPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111452%26meid%3Da234c191444e467c8706541b1c217014%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D121795360814%26itm%3D264485133899%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DBMC&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219

This one also "allegedly" fit`s too. Although spec`d for a Minor?. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEK028-MORRIS-MINOR-LOCKHEED-TYPE-BRAKE-SERVO-FITTING-KIT-TT3949Z/121795360814?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Pete

[Clive]

33 minutes ago, PeteH said:

I`v had this on my "watch list" for some time now. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-HERALD-1300-TOLEDO-SPITFIRE-GT6-BRAKE-SERVO-KIT-TT3949-SEN43-13H7939/264485133899?_trkparms=aid%3D1110009%26algo%3DSPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111452%26meid%3Da234c191444e467c8706541b1c217014%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D121795360814%26itm%3D264485133899%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DBMC&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219

This one also "allegedly" fit`s too. Although spec`d for a Minor?. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEK028-MORRIS-MINOR-LOCKHEED-TYPE-BRAKE-SERVO-FITTING-KIT-TT3949Z/121795360814?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Pete

I am pretty certain that all the various servo kits are from teh same source. I got mine for teh Toledo from the MGBHive, they were more or less the cheapest and I have had good service when I used to maintain my Dads MGB a few years ago. Be careful about boost ratio. Not sure if the diameter increases with ratio.I used 1.9 from memory.

(I used a remote servo as proper dolomite ones are seriously pricey for a recon, and used ones are largely only suitable for reconditioning.)

 

EDIT. Kits are available from under £50 now.... 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Powertune-Remote-Brake-Servo-LE72696-Brake-Booster-1-9-for-Triumph-TR3-4-4A-GT6/401711218234?hash=item5d87dabe3a:g:xB0AAOSwBZ5ca8~j

 

[johny]

yes the price has come down and down and are now very economical but what was your experience Clive? Was it reliable and the 1.9 ratio a good choice?

[Clive]

Been on teh car about 4 years, no issues at all. 

As usual with a generic kit the supplied pip needs shortening, and the brackets tweeked.

1.9 works well on the toledo. It has stupidly small brakes (smaller than a herald/spit) and the servo was fitted at the factory. The sprint was fitted with a large servo and better pads rather than bigger brakes. Nuts. (My car now has a TR7 engine, and was used on many 12 car rallies. Did the tack laps at Spa almost 2 years ago, but I had to be brave and resist using the brakes as much as possible to prevent fade. A bigger brake setup is on the cards)

[johny]

Thanks, think thats the size I would go for on my Vitesse... 

[Bob Owen]

Interestingly the "powertune" unit identified by Pete is not "warranted" for use with silicone brake fluid.

Do you think this applies to all units ??

[PeteH]

4 minutes ago, Bob Owen said:

Interestingly the "powertune" unit identified by Pete is not "warranted" for use with silicone brake fluid.

Do you think this applies to all units ??

That`s an interesting thought? I wonder why?. Issues with the rubbers?. Otherwise I cannot think why?

Pete

[68vitesse]

40 minutes ago, Bob Owen said:

Interestingly the "powertune" unit identified by Pete is not "warranted" for use with silicone brake fluid.

Do you think this applies to all units ??

Have had a 1.9 Powertune unit, bought from TRGB told it was a Taiwanese copy of a Lockheed unit, fitted to my Vitesse and always used with Silicone brake fluid for a good number of years. The manual doesn't mention silicone brake fluid at all but does say use Dot4 or SAE J1703.

Regards

Paul.

 

[Pete Lewis]

you will find all manufacturers will only warranty with their tried and tested fluid

we dealt with  warranty on AP Lockheed and Girling   over the years and even military requirements for silicon were exempt from any warranty 

it was Dot4 or nothing 

pete

[dougbgt6]

Also silicone must NOT be used in a modern ABS system, so if your manufacturing a universal servo you're going to cover yourself.  

Doug

[Bob Owen]

So, I've got silicone in my system, think it's great.

Can I stick with it when fitting one of these servos or play safe and go back to the old corrosive stuff??

[Clive]

4 minutes ago, Bob Owen said:

So, I've got silicone in my system, think it's great.

Can I stick with it when fitting one of these servos or play safe and go back to the old corrosive stuff??

A servo will work with silicone. It is ABS that you must not use silicone fluid with.

Normal fluid is not corrosive, but does strip paint...

And most brake component manufacturers will not warranty anything used with silicone. I expect this is because they have not conducted thorough testing rather than any actual issues.

[Clive]

2 hours ago, johny said:

Thanks, think thats the size I would go for on my Vitesse... 

Yes, easy to "over servo" rather than give subtle assistance. The only thing is you may want to use a larger bore master cylinder, I know late GT6 used 3/4 bore. I upped my Toledo from 0.625 (I ran it for a while without a servo as teh old unit became intermittent, which is exciting in a not good way) to 0.70 to get a good pedal. But try it first.

[johny]

Already got 3/4 MC and like it but the price of these servos is now so low its seems rude not to take advantage especially as you cant stick too many things on your car can you😁

[dougbgt6]

58 minutes ago, clive said:

I know late GT6 used 3/4 bore.

Unobtainium these days, I have a long rambling tale about a suspected MC fault, I couldn't get a replacement and tried a 0.7". I didn't think 0.05" would've make much difference, how wrong was I   Pedal travel increased by 2" couldn't get it any better. Fortunately it wasn't the 0.75" at fault (it was the servo ) but I've stocked up on repair kits, just in case.

Doug

. 

[Unkel Kunkel]

2 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

Also silicone must NOT be used in a modern ABS system, so if your manufacturing a universal servo you're going to cover yourself.  

Doug

 “Silicone brake fluid” . uho.. bound to provoke a response -  bit like “Trunnions  - oil or grease?” 

On the basis of no knowledge,  I get the impression that the concern re ABS  and silicone seems to be based on possible foaming -there is something on Utube where someone puts some in a blender and unsurprisingly it froths up and “proves “ it.Thought that a bit  unsound as there is no fluid / air interface in the braking circuit  - or shouldn’t once the brakes have been  successfully bled.

A servo “as far as the fluid is concerned” is  just another piston  that moves in much the same way  as the master or slave cylinder?