Colin Lindsay Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 Hi gang, just checking as there's nary a squeak from my starter this morning; all else is working so I'm suspecting the solenoid / starter motor. It's an NOS starter motor but the end terminal wiggles about and I've a sneaky suspicion that it's damaged inside, but want to remove only as a last resort. The solenoid is fitted to the bulkhead with the connections facing the battery and I know it doesn't matter which terminal links to what as internally they're both the same, but battery is to the left in the photo and starter to the right. I need to check the connection of the power-in cable, the small spade terminal so a quick question: there are two spade terminals on the solenoid, one above and one below. How do you tell which one the red / white wire should go to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 Hi Colin, using a multimeter (DVM or AVO) set the meter to Volts (20 or so) Place a meter prod on one connector and the other to earth. If that is the starter solenoid connector you will get no reading If it is an AUX 12V outlet then you will get 12V (battery volts) Switch to Ohms - place the meter prod on the connector that gave no reading and you should get a few hundred Ohms - this is the coil of the solenoid. Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 The wiggly starter motor connection is necessarily a problem Colin as long as you dont rotate it when doing up the cable nut. As Roger says for testing the solenoid connections and from the manual it looks like the red/white wire goes onto the bottom middle terminal shown in you picture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 Just tried it on the bottom terminal, no result not even a click from the solenoid. I have a solenoid with only one terminal, it's recessed same as the bottom one on the fitted solenoid, whereas the other on the fitted solenoid isn't, so reckoned that's the one to go for. May be the solenoid but the battery might need replacing too. Off for a new battery this morning, will firstly change the solenoid, then after that the starter. At least all else works and there was no smoke lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 just stick an old scredriver across the battery /starter terminals and the motor should spin up yes you will get a spark or two if the motor goes its the solenoid, if it doesnt its the starter agree the loose terminal stud is not a good sign Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Cooper Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 If Pete's trick works, check the earth connection of the solenoid before you condemn it as I think it needs a good earth to work, and your freshly painted surfaces might be preventing a connection via the mounting bolts. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 thats a good call Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 To test, jump leads from the battery +ve and -ve to starter motor. If motor turns remove one lead, try again, then the other way, this will tell you motor or solenoid or earth. Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 Just arrived back with a new battery, went for an 075 so can now test properly. Am I the only person in the country who rewires various bits, repairs or adds various components, then reconnects the battery with gritted teeth and the expectation of either a loud bang or clouds of smoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 40 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Am I the only person in the country who rewires various bits, repairs or adds various components, then reconnects the battery with gritted teeth and the expectation of either a loud bang or clouds of smoke? No. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 well thats two of you then!!!! pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 5 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: How do you tell which one the red / white wire should go to? Simple test: 5 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Just tried it on the bottom terminal, no result not even a click from the solenoid It should go to the one that makes the solenoid click when you turn the key. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 55 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: well thats two of you then!!!! pete ERRRR 3 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, NonMember said: Simple test: It should go to the one that makes the solenoid click when you turn the key. Problem was that neither did, and I tried both!! In typical Lindsay fashion I went the whole hog - changed the starter motor for another, changed the starter lead, replaced the solenoid for one with only one spade terminal, crimped the red / white wire for a firmer fit, and ran an earth from the solenoid mount screw to the coil mount screw. Turned the key and away it all whirred. So: now we'll never know if it was a poor earth, faulty solenoid or duff starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: So: now we'll never know if it was a poor earth, faulty solenoid or duff starter. One of life's eternal mysteries. You broke that golden rule (guideline) - change 1 bit at a time and test. Well, don't we all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Just arrived back with a new battery, went for an 075 so can now test properly. Am I the only person in the country who rewires various bits, repairs or adds various components, then reconnects the battery with gritted teeth and the expectation of either a loud bang or clouds of smoke? hmmm its called a multimeter and you can set it to measure resistance, then check the battery lead to earth (with ignition switch off and then on) to tell if theres going to be a bang when you connect the battery and even turn on the ignition🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 1 hour ago, johny said: hmmm its called a multimeter and you can set it to measure resistance, then check the battery lead to earth (with ignition switch off and then on) to tell if theres going to be a bang when you connect the battery and even turn on the ignition🙂 That's not just as exciting... I just look for the sparks at the battery terminal... but seriously, I really should brush up on the multimeter use. At present my test is a bulb on two cables, if it lights there's power. The brake lights have stopped working and it's not the switch, so on to other options tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn wright Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 Hi! That happened to me a couple of weeks ago! Tried starting the car and it just sort of clicked and would not start! So checked the thick black cable from the solenoid to the starter and found that the screw brass connection to the starter was loose! Took the Starter Out took the backing plate out and tightened the brass screw! I was actually going to change the Bushes but Rimmer sent me the wrong ones for the Starter(mine were triangle ones and the sent me oblong!!) so cleaned those up. Cleaned the Bendex, Fitted it all back together and fitted Starter Motor, guess what!! She started first time LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 Yes I think theres two nuts on that connection one either side of the cable lug. The inner one doesnt need to be very tight as you risk damaging the threaded stud and its insulating sleeve however it does need to be held rigidly with a thin spanner while tightening the outer nut to allow the lug to be well clamped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 If time had not been so short on this car I'd have checked each component individually and bench tested, but I've got a week to get it on the road again so went for the easiest option / cheat. I bought two starter motors from eBay late last year when I realised the one in the Herald was very lazy. The NOS model cost me £27 once postage was added and the other, a good condition M35G cost me £16.95 all in. I did think that the new model had a very wiggly terminal, possibly a sign of something broken inside. The other one was slightly rusty but in nice clean condition and of course started first time. I'll strip the new one down and see what needs repair or replacing. Same with the solenoid; taking them apart and cleaning the insides is simple. I just need a few free hours and there are none of those at present! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 the wiggle terminal stud often breaks the wires inside depends if they are solid soldered or on a eyelet a look see while youre fighting the easter eggs will reveal all Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 The terminal post and its insulating mounting are shaped to fit together but if the nuts are tightened incorrectly the whole lot rotates and as Pete says can break the connection inside. However if youre lucky the connection can still be good but of course the post will now always be be more wiggly... I took my solenoid apart for repair recently but it wasnt intended to be repairable as it was rivetted together. The copper contact plate inside was quite burnt so I flipped it over to use the smooth reverse side to make the circuit and then put the case back together with nuts and bolts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 19 hours ago, Chris A said: ERRRR 3 🙄 ...and 4!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 10, 2022 Report Share Posted April 10, 2022 Respect, for all "electricity" increases, after you have survived a H-V "belt. The Doc who treated the burn said I was lucky and opined that the only reason I survived was because I was completely wet with sweat.? The Generator Flat was 120degF and 90%+ humidity. NOT to be repeated. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted April 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2022 21 hours ago, johny said: I took my solenoid apart for repair recently but it wasnt intended to be repairable as it was rivetted together. The copper contact plate inside was quite burnt so I flipped it over to use the smooth reverse side to make the circuit and then put the case back together with nuts and bolts. Quite easy to do once you drill the original rivets out; the insides are simple and usually green. I broke a case on refitting by using rivets that were too strong, so must raid a mate's workplace for soft alloy rivets that will hold but not break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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