Nick Whitehead Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 Hi. Advice needed. Is a halogen headlamp conversion recommended for a Vitesse fitted with a dynamo. Or is it advisable to fit an alternator first? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 Halogen lights do not use any more current than sealed beams etc, so swapping is no problem. However, if you are able, teh one thing which makes a MASSIVE improvement to lighting is to fit relays. And having had a light switch "burn out" recently, it means my new switch should last indefinitely as it is only switching some relays. The other option is to use LED bulbs, which are evn brighter and use a fraction of the electrical power, but proper branded LED bulbs are 10x the price or more than halogen bulbs. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 +1 for for Clive's clues Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 I posted in the other thread about road legal LED replacements ... Their light is different than halogen but I don't think they are half bad... Expensive though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 The above advice is good but there's one more factor to consider. On main beam, with all four headlights illuminated (whether tungsten sealed beam or halogen), the total current draw exceeds the dynamo output, so the battery will gradually discharge. I found this out in a Vitesse during an all night drive many years ago. The answer is either an alternator, or led bulbs which need less current. Nigel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Nigel Clark said: On main beam, with all four headlights illuminated (whether tungsten sealed beam or halogen), the total current draw exceeds the dynamo output, so the battery will gradually discharge. So this was a 'design fault' right from the launch of the vitesse when they should have used a higher output dynamo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 Im not sure about that as I thought each standard headlight was 50w on mainbeam which gives 200w total which divided by 12.7v means a draw of about 16A whereas the dynamo is rated up to 25A. Even if you were on dip and flashed the mains (275w total) it would still only be 22A which alright at idle would be a struggle for the dyno but on the move it shouldnt have a problem.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 How many amps does the dynamo produce? thought they were about 24A? Each headlight bulb will draw a smidge under 5A, so 20A on full beam. Not much left if a heater is on, but should still be OK as main beam is rarely on more than 50% of even a night drive. Plenty have done the RBRR in the last 56 years on dynamos (less so now, most are converted) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Chris A said: So this was a 'design fault' right from the launch of the vitesse when they should have used a higher output dynamo? Yes, the standard design was marginal with no reserve.... The original dynamo is rated at 22 amps. Four sealed beam headlights draw 16 amps on their own. Add side lights, panel lights and ignition, and the total will be around 20 amps, maybe a bit more. With a little inefficiency in the dynamo, the battery will drain flat over a few hours. It happened to me on the CT Round Britain Reliability Run. Nigel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 The WSM for the 2L says 25A dynamo but perhaps it was uprated from the 1600? Also apart from the dynamo being in good condition the regulator must be set up correctly otherwise this could limit current at too low a level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, Nigel Clark said: Yes, the standard design was marginal with no reserve.... The original dynamo is rated at 22 amps. Four sealed beam headlights draw 16 amps on their own. Add side lights, panel lights and ignition, and the total will be around 20 amps, maybe a bit more. With a little inefficiency in the dynamo, the battery will drain flat over a few hours. It happened to me on the CT Round Britain Reliability Run. Nigel Strange as I would have expected the regulator to cut out when the current limit is reached and then of course the ignition light should come on as the battery voltage is higher than the dynamo's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, johny said: Strange as I would have expected the regulator to cut out when the current limit is reached and then of course the ignition light should come on as the battery voltage is higher than the dynamo's... IIRC the ignition warning light was glowing faintly, not fully illuminated. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 Ah yes then there was a problem but if you had the correct dynamo working at its design capacity you were using around 330w! I suspect you had a fault somewhere such as poor brush contact - something which can have little effect at low loads but then restrict higher currents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, johny said: Ah yes then there was a problem but if you had the correct dynamo working at its design capacity you were using around 330w! I suspect you had a fault somewhere such as poor brush contact - something which can have little effect at low loads but then restrict higher currents... That makes sense! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 So we conclude that it was not a design fault, nor a general feature of dynamo-equipped Vitesses, but rather a fault on Nigel's car at the time? That would make sense as I frequently used to drive a 2L saloon with a dynamo at night and never had any hint of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 Thats my take on it and I think sometimes starter motors get painted with the same brush as some owners have poor cranking from the original unit so change to a high torque geared version while others have no difficulties at all. In both of these cases the problem is likely to be down to brushes, shorted windings or poor connections... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 My 1600/6 owned in 1972 had a 25 amp dynamo. Somebody had mal adjusted the three bobbin regulator so that the current regulator was set too high. It worked ok until I fitted spot and fog lamps. The connections to the commutator melted. I fitted a 22 amp one because I could not find a s/h 25A at the scrapyard. Removed the extra lights, reset the regulator and all was fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 14, 2023 Report Share Posted February 14, 2023 16 hours ago, johny said: Thats my take on it and I think sometimes starter motors get painted with the same brush as some owners have poor cranking from the original unit so change to a high torque geared version while others have no difficulties at all. In both of these cases the problem is likely to be down to brushes, shorted windings or poor connections... I would suggest there is a problem nowdays, in that the original stuff is getting worn, and parts to repair are often poor quality. As to teh repro stuff being lobbed out of factories, it is often appauling. And now, the high torque stuff sold to thee classic car market is cheap copies of the denso originals. Gi=uess what will be happening? Or maybe not as people don't use their cars as much. But I would rather a used denso unit over a new copy or rebuild one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Whitehead Posted March 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 Thanks everyone. I have now fitter relays, following Clive and Pete Lewis' advice. I still would like more brightness, so intent to replace the sealed beam units with halogens. Please can you advise me what I need. I'm assuming H4s for the outer lights and H1s for the inner? Typically, do they fit within the original bowls used by the sealed beam units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Nick Whitehead said: Please can you advise me what I need. I'm assuming H4s for the outer lights and H1s for the inner? That's what I have on my Vitesse now, although until last year it was H4 on all four, with the inner dip filaments just not connected. That's actually easier to do as the wiring is already correct - the H1s need a loom tweak. 12 minutes ago, Nick Whitehead said: Typically, do they fit within the original bowls used by the sealed beam units? Usually, yes. There are some very poorly made units out there, though, with the locating lugs in the wrong places. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 the lug problem is two will align the third will need a small cut to increase the bowl rim cut out a few MM . i ran my vitesse with all 4 on main and dip , and not a mot problem as they check outers and inners but not both at the same time adding relays to get 14v to the lamps will make the orig seal beams awaken , you dont have to change the lamp units to get an improvement Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 18 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: the lug problem is two will align the third will need a small cut to increase the bowl rim cut out a few MM . i ran my vitesse with all 4 on main and dip , and not a mot problem as they check outers and inners but not both at the same time adding relays to get 14v to the lamps will make the orig seal beams awaken , you dont have to change the lamp units to get an improvement Pete I’ve done the same on my Vitesse though for Mot I remove a blade fuse so only outers come on with Dipped lights Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 24, 2023 Report Share Posted March 24, 2023 Have run my Vitesse with Halogen outers and the original sealed beam inners for years, main beam was always fine it was dip that was poor. Think originally it was about 200W main and 75W dip. Regards Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 24, 2023 Report Share Posted March 24, 2023 many are 55/60 watt on both sealed beams same as most halogens (unless you go mad ) later sealed beams were 75w 200w would not be road legal and would have been some previous life modification and if H4s have a plastic base reflector having silly wattages often the heat melts the unit ... pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishawley Posted March 24, 2023 Report Share Posted March 24, 2023 14 hours ago, Nick Whitehead said: Typically, do they fit within the original bowls used by the sealed beam units? It's only recently I discovered that the mounting of 7 inch units is not, and never was, a universal standard. Comparing the lug arrangments on, say, Minis, Jags, and Triumphs they can be so different as to defy cross fitment even with jiggery pokery. Vendors can be less than meticulous in drawing attention to this (if they are even aware). That said, the correct unit will be a drop in replacement for the outgoing SBU. IMHO worth paying a bit more to buy from a triumph specialist rather than eBay cheapies. That said, even my favourite Triumph seller sent units that didn't fit, but they accepted return without any argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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