Just bought my first Spitfire! Joining in for first time.

[frankcalid]

Hello Triumph family  

My name is Frank and I am a new proud owner of a Spitfire and would like to introduce myself.

I have just bought a 1971 Spitfire MKIV 1300 which has done around 50k on the clock. It seemed to be in the best position out of the 4 cars I had viewed and the owner did not let it out in the rain for the past 2 years.

However there are a few niggly bits I was hoping you guys can help me out with as I am not experienced in owning a Spitfire.

1) There is a strong oil/petrol smell in the cabin (perhaps it's from the boot) which is always there when I drive, and also I notice it stays on my clothes and it feels like a mechanic has just finished his shift. 

2) The heater works when I pull the knob however the knobs seem to be stuck in the same position - what part or change must I do?

3) When indicating left and then turning in the indicator does not switch itself off for some reason - will I need a new part?

4) I notice I don't have search lights and hazard lights on my dash - no access to controls. - Can I add these on?

5) I will be giving it in for a service and would like to know what interesting enhancements can I add in (spending a few hundred - not too extreme) to make the drive, performance, stability much more better i.e it already came with electric ignition and also taking in unleaded only fuel.  - so anything else which will benefit the ride / comfortability?

7) Wipers don't work - was told it was the switch so is this whats needed? ( https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-155495ALT ) 

6) I live in West London Heston and to book my car in to specialist is a looong waiting time, is there anyone who can work on the issues above - happy to book my car in this week.

Photos attached.

 

 

 

 

[Anglefire]

Can’t see the pictures Frank.  Oh and welcome. 

Petrol smell - mine does a little - can be from the fuel tank vent in the back or from the carbs overflow in the front. There is only a single skin bulkhead and is full of holes one way or another.  But shouldn’t be strong. 

The heater is controlled by a valve in the line in the engine bay - they often seize.  

https://www.canleyclassics.com/triumph-spitfire-mkiv/1500-500469-hoses-pipes-and-demister-nozzles part number 724021

hazards I’m surprised you don’t have a switch. Adding is possible if you can follow the Wiring diagrams  and do the mods. 

[frankcalid]

Thank you for the prompt response Angelfire.

Should see the pics now as I've embedded them correctly.

The weblink your provided didn't work unfortunately and that part number will I only need one of those - is there anything else that goes with it that needs ordering?

Hoping to get more responses on my other questions from the Triumph family - I will happily post progress pics to keep everyone updated. 

Apologies if I am not so technical but the Spitfire was one of my dream cars and now that I finally have one I really want to fix all the issues I currently have on it.

Many thanks!

[Anglefire]

Yes I can see the pictures now - looks a nice motor! Engine bay has a few extra wires - there is a second, old, battery earth wire cable tied to the new one- should be removed really. Its doing no harm as such, but isn't required.

I see you also have an oil pressure gauge.

I've changed computers! 

Try this link

 

Its the thing just behind the coil in your first picture.

 

[NonMember]

Hello Frank. Welcome to the family.

45 minutes ago, frankcalid said:

1) There is a strong oil/petrol smell in the cabin (perhaps it's from the boot) which is always there when I drive, and also I notice it stays on my clothes and it feels like a mechanic has just finished his shift. 

2) The heater works when I pull the knob however the knobs seem to be stuck in the same position - what part or change must I do?

3) When indicating left and then turning in the indicator does not switch itself off for some reason - will I need a new part?

4) I notice I don't have search lights and hazard lights on my dash - no access to controls. - Can I add these on?

5) I will be giving it in for a service and would like to know what interesting enhancements can I add in (spending a few hundred - not too extreme) to make the drive, performance, stability much more better i.e it already came with electric ignition and also taking in unleaded only fuel.  - so anything else which will benefit the ride / comfortability?

7) Wipers don't work - was told it was the switch so is this whats needed? ( https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-155495ALT ) 

6) I live in West London Heston and to book my car in to specialist is a looong waiting time, is there anyone who can work on the issues above - happy to book my car in this week.

1) As has been said, petrol smell is not unusual. The tank needs to breathe and on these pre-1980 cars that means it's just vented to atmosphere. Modern cars are all fitted with charcoal canisters in the tank vent to trap the fumes and later feed them into the engine to be burned. No such careful handling on a Triumph. However, it shouldn't normally be so strong as to stick to your clothes.

2) The heater valve can seize up, as has been said, but so can the cable that operates it and, on Mk4/1500, the control lever itself. I've never been able to shift the control on my GT6 in the 25 years I've owned it.

3) Indicator self-cancelling is handled by a small clip on the top of the steering column. This is often mis-aligned so that you need to turn the wheel a LONG way one way for it to work, and sometimes that means it doesn't work at all the other way. Fairly easy to fix if that is the problem, but it does involve removing the steering wheel and de-coupling the shaft from the rack.

4) "search lights?" You should have hazards on a Mk4 but no spots or fogs. Retro-fitting is possible.

5) How long is a piece of string? There's lots of things that can be done but very few are "needed".

6) I don't really know your area but Moordale Motors are in North London and are very good with anything Triumph.

[frankcalid]

Thank you Angelfire & NonMember.

1) Oil / Petrol smell - I'll check if there are any leaks or holes thats making it worse at the garage this week.

2) I will order the part now: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-724021 - do I need anything else with it or should installing this break free the 2 knobs that are stuck?

3) I'll ask the garage if they can fix it hopefully won't need a new indicator switch?

4) Sorry I mean to say high beam lights - don't seem to have this. and as for hazards - which kit will I need from this link? https://rimmerbros.com/ItemSearch--search-Hazard--srcin-1

5) K&N filters, New shock absorbers, suspension springs etc...anything that will make the ride a little more comfortable to drive (less rattly) and healthy maintenance wise, I am going to get it services so I don't mind spending a few quid to renew some parts as the last owner only drove it 50 miles in the last 2 years locked up nicely in his plush garage. 

6) Thanks! I will call up Moordale tomorrow and see whether they can book me in sooner than later.

anything on the Wiper switch query?

[KevinR]

Hi Frank, and welcome to the forum.

With regards to the hazards, the 1971 MK4 Spitfire was never fitted with them, so if you want to add them you need to look a later wiring diagram.  If I remember correctly, they didn't come in until the 1500 Spitfire was launched in 1974.

[frankcalid]

Many thanks Kevin.

Do you think this will work?

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-159905A

Would you also have the wiring diagram?

[Anglefire]

There are various wiring diagrams - the one in the Haynes manual is not bad, but is black and white.

Just search the internet and you get loads  - such as :

Why do you want hazard lights anyway? A warning triangle is probably more use and doesn't go flat.

 

 

 

[KevinR]

8 hours ago, frankcalid said:

Many thanks Kevin.

Do you think this will work?

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-159905A

Would you also have the wiring diagram?

That Rimmer Bros item looks like it is the correct switch - BUT you need more than just the switch to add the hazard flashers.

The dash that is fitted to your car is a later addition - the 1971 Spitfire had a dash made of black plastic, not wood.

Your dash looks like it is an aftermarket replacement, which you would have to butcher to add the hole for the switch.

in 1972 ish, the black plastic dash was replaced by the wooden one, with a minor layout change.

in 1974 ish, there were further changes when the hazard switch was added.

A good reference for what the car should and shouldn't have is John Thomason's book, Triumph Spitfire and GT6 - A Guide to Originality, ISBN 9781861268617

https://shop.tssc.org.uk/product/complete-guide-originality-spitgt6-0

A workshop manual and parts catalogue is also very handy

https://shop.tssc.org.uk/product/workshop-manual-spitfire-mkiv-0

The parts catalogue is currently not listed online with the TSSC Club shop, but worth a call to the office to see if its in stock.

 

Legally, you do not require hazard flashers as they were never required when the car was new.

Why do you want them ?  Do you plan to break down regularly

 

[Clive]

Worth noting that in your pictures the hood has not been folded correctly, and will suffer damage.....

http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Spittop.html

 

Re the car, the interior looks decent etc, but underbonnet looks kike it has been owned by somebody who has little knowledge? And maybe garages doing specific jobs but not looking at "the whole". Ie battery earth cable replaced, the old one still there and cable tied out the way. That sort of thing means the car does need a good look over by somebody who knows the cars, and certainly Moordales would be a good choice. Not sure your "few hundred" will go far though, unless you are doing all the work yourself. And forget "improvements", get the basics correct first. You may be surprised at how much better the car is, and so uprated its may not be required. (typical problems include poor brakes-usually lack of use, out of adjustment or rubbish pads/worn discs. $ wheel tracking needs doing. Tyres old/poor quality. Exhausts fitted poorly. That sort of thing)

[NonMember]

8 hours ago, frankcalid said:

4) Sorry I mean to say high beam lights - don't seem to have this. and as for hazards - which kit will I need from this link? https://rimmerbros.com/ItemSearch--search-Hazard--srcin-1

Ah, yes, I didn't look closely enough and mis-remembered. My 1972 GT6 has hazard lights and I'd forgotten this was a "posh car" feature at the time. To be honest, since you don't have the cut-out between the big instruments, I wouldn't bother trying to retrofit them.

The high beam is controlled by the left hand stalk on the column - up for main, down for dip. Is this not working?

[Pete Lewis]

I would add the side shiels to keep road water off the dizzy ,

Whats that blue wire doing looks a bit lost

The heater hot water valve looks in good condition but they can seize and be full of crud

The slide levers in the dash do benefit from a squirt of grease, i would pull the cables out and grease fhe inner cable can be  very rusty 

Use  all std parts till you have confidence in your car, things like KN filters will upset the mixture and youre into much twiddling

 Do what Triumph designed and it will do what it says on the tin,  once there you can progress into modifications and some of the 

Problems that creates

Dont think ive used hazards ever in 50 years of motoring,  most are just  misused, i agree a triangle is more suited 

Most jobs are easy diy with a little thought,    a good manual, is 1st thing on your wish list

Spanners 7/16"  1/2"  9/16"   AF. In metric 11  13   14 mm will do  most jobs,  screws will be posidrive 2  possibly   some odd philips

a decent bladed , pliers long nose and engineers, sef of feel, gauges   

Can of EP80/90 GL4 for gearbox diff and front trunnions 

And youre  away 

Pete

 

 

[Nautam Mistry]

Hi and welcome...

As a recent Newbie, I took my car to JY Classics to get her re-commissioned...my car had been sitting in the garage for 16 years...they got my car to pass an MOT and now she's up and running so I'm now tinkering.

Moordale is very near me and I might give them a shout to see if they can do some light bodywork repairs on some scratches I have on the car.

Your car looks great from the inside...something for me to aim at!

My car has no hazard lights or fog lamps but I like it like that as it keeps things as they were when the car left the factory...wanna keep things as close to original as I can.

May be worth getting a Heritage Certificate to keep with the car if you don't already have one.

Nautam

 

[JohnD]

Welcome, Frank!

Petrol smell.     The tank vent may be the cause.  I'm familiar with Vitesses, rather than Spitfires, but a length of hose on the vent, taken though the boot floor to behine the bumper might help.

But modern fuel can seep through ordinary rubber hose, and lead to a strong fuel smell around them.  R9 specification hose should be used, but there is a lot of fake R9 about.  https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=8&t=1672145    Buy it from a reputable source.

Above, the many holes in the bulkhead were mentioned.    This allows engine bay fumes and heat into the passenger compartment, unpleasnant and dangerous.    In the dark, night or an unlit garage, get someone to shine a bright light from the engine side, while you peer under the dash.  You may be surprised!   Also check the seal between the gearbox cover the and the floor.   Kits of fasteners and rubber seal strips from Club shop.

Good luck!

John

PS Nice car!

[Pete Lewis]

some spitty tanks have the feed from off the top of the tank  others are from the  union in the bottom , if this is leaking it fumes everywhere removes underseal , empties the tank  and fills the  car with fumes 

simple to give all accessible unions and hoses  and sender unit  a wipe with a finger it  will show  the culprit

old cars do smell oily  many forget what they used to be like ,  , a bit petroly when hot standing ,  but not driving or  in storage/garage

many hoses seem to be firmly hose clips but , they are hard hose and not sealing so leaks occur by gravity or drain back 

a few minutes follow the route and something will show up

if its only when driving then theres likely a fuel float problem allowing the float chamber to flood out the vent on the top cover 

this normally very visible 

Pete

pete

 

[frankcalid]

@Angelfire, 

Thank you for the wiring diagram after reading your opinions I may skip the hazard light option now.

@KevinR - You are correct it is an aftermarket replacement as the black one was deterioted I was told, I personally prefer the wood effect so thats all good. Thank you so much for thosel links I will consider ordering those for myself. LOL at your last comment - I hope not I wanted them so that I can say thank you to the vehicles behind me who give me way

@Clive - Yes I may consider leaving them out for now, yes the high beam does not work as well as the Wipers, are these controlled by the same left hand stalk? I notice there is a flick switch under the steering wheel but that apears to control the fan. 

@Pete Lewis - many thanks for your suggestion, I am not so tech savvy so do you have a link to the side sheild products? 

I would love to get a toolkit and do all these things myself as it is such great satisfaction. Unfortunately I don't have a garage and wife has just given birth to our first daughter which gets me tied up most the times.

@Nautam Mistry - Many thanks for your compliment and I hope you complete your car as you like it Yes I called JY classics but unfortunately they are booked until July which means I'll miss most of the summer enjoying my Spit. I have called Moordale Motors and they are kind enough to book me in for this Friday 18. I see what you mean about originality - best to keep things simple! deffo need to get those Wipers and high beam sorted as driving it back from Leicester to London was a nightmare in the rain

@John D - Your help is greatly appreciated I will let the garage know to look into this as it really makes my drving experience very unpleasant and I have ended up having headaches with that smell. oh and thanks for the compliment!

@Pete Lewis - Your last comment I will share this with the garage (probably know this already) to make sure they fix anything that is broken.

All - I really feel part of the family already and your input is very valuable to a newbie like me, I also have a W123 280 Merc but I understand this is a very different playing field.

I am thinking of ordering the (attached) parts ready for the garage to install as it may work out cheaper. Spoke to Dale at Moordale and he's been very friendly and welcoming.
 

[Pete Lewis]

you can always take a sunny drive up to Luton for a Chat and how to do it  , let me know

side valences from club shop part number  EV100  made in aluminium

if youre free on the 20th its  my twiddle day at club HQ  its free 

Pete

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, frankcalid said:

@Clive - Yes I may consider leaving them out for now, yes the high beam does not work as well as the Wipers, are these controlled by the same left hand stalk? I notice there is a flick switch under the steering wheel but that apears to control the fan.

The left hand stalk controls headlamp beam only. Up for main, down for dip, pull towards you to flash.

Wipers on a Mk4 should be a square knob on the dash, below where your (non-standard) clock is fitted. Rotate right for wipe, two speeds, and push for wash.

[Pete Lewis]

and one of the 4 fuse box gremlins that cause chaos is the cap on the glass fuse does make a circuit between/aross  the blades either end of the fuse

nothing to do with a blown fuse  any poor contact here and a multitude of mishaps plague you with much head scratching

do pull a fuse and make sure the small clip blades that holds it in place are giving a good clean grip on the fuse end caps.

at least all your rear lamps are working, there is another bulb holder claw mix and match how they earth or not and how they  get twin filiament bulbs and holders all mixed up...more chaos ...

Pete

[frankcalid]

Thanks Pete Lewis - I am on shift that day so will be very hard unfortunately.

@NonMember - Lo and Behold! it works you beauty Wipers are working. the beam is switching from main and dip. when pulling towards me the flash is not working - however I tested this with the key in the ignition, havent tested upon start.

Didn't know forums can be so helpful - you guys are great!

[frankcalid]

I have booked my car in for the 18th May at Moordale motors for a service - full service with parts is £200, not sure if thats worth it.

Another question I had is that I want to purchase the minilite wheels  - are there any issues if I go for 6J X 14 i.e rubbing or additional modifications or shall I stick to 5.5J X 13?

175 / 70 seems to be favourable for the tyres.

[thescrapman]

Get Dale to have a quick chat afterwards ( he is a busy man and won't thank me for offerinG too much of his time!!) for an opinion of what is lurking awaiting to come back and bite you.

there is a CT meting at Potters Bar on 21st if you are about, the local TSSC guys have been going there since the North London meet closed down. Advise and suchlike freely offered.

[frankcalid]

thanks thescrapman - im hoping to get most the things sorted once my car goes in - mainly mechanical and also some cosmetic things i've already purchased online.

Any advice on the size of alloys, as I don't want anything to rub or ruin the driving?

[sulzerman]

Hi Frank

Re hood before lowering make sure you undo all the poppers, unzip the window (if it has a zipped) one, then pull back the hood towards the boot. Then drop the header rail (front) down and fold the hood down over the frame. will fit quite neatly.

I always use Canley Classics good prices and excellent customer service, no connections just a satisfied customer for many years!

Nice looking car!