Tipidave Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 I am slowly making progress with a 1200 1965 herald that had been laid up for 9 years.... I have found that the hoses to the heater are blocked with a white paste and that a hose placed on both inlet and outlet pipe will not clear the matrix. I have never had to service a smiths heater. Any ideas on how to remove and clean valve and matrix? My assumption is that the white paste will be blocking everything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 My first thought was that if it's a mayonnaise-like substance, suspect a blown head gasket - check the inside of the oil filler cap too; but I've never seen any so bad that it actually blocked the hoses in the coolant system. If it's a solid, powder-like substance then the alloy metal parts (thermostat housing, heater valve) may have corroded substantially and blocked the hoses, but it may be just a localised blockage. I'm assuming the car was left dry? Try working it out with a screwdriver or cane and see how far it goes. Hoses are easily replaced but if it comes down to it, so is a heater matrix or thermostat housing. You can try blowing it out with compressed air; if this causes any further damage then it's likely the system wouldn't have held water, either. Once you get a partial circulation throughout the entire system then add a radiator flusher and let that work. Plenty of flushing and backflushing in the reverse direction will clear many an obstruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 I recently cleaned out the heater on my 13/60, it too was blocked with a white goo which I put down to scale. T flush mine out I removed the heater valve and connected a hose pipe directly to the inlet/outlet with another length of hosepipe on the other to drain any liquid to a bucket. The mains water pressure was enough to clear out the heater matrix, after several flushes in both direction, getting rid of the old brown water that was 'sealed' in the heater. I fitted a new valve as the old one was completely blocked. Take care to make sure you refit the rubber 'o' ring with the valve. I then took the opportunity to flush out the whole system using a commercial rad flush product as per instructions, keep the heater in the on position, refilled with the coolant mixture and hey presto! All good including a working heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 Whilst a strip down of the valve and its diaphragm may not work and a new is best You can strip the valve , mark the position of the two halves, drill put the locating rivet and rotate the halves to disengage Clean it all out and refit getting the two marks to align or the inlet wont point the roght way Refit a rivet or small screw to lock the halves from rotating You will likely find the bypass tube under the exhaust manofold to the pump is also blocked , Best cleaner is cheap simple washing soda crystals run for a few days and give a serious flush out Be carefull with any compressed air if blocked you can exceed the capability of the matrix Think you will find the white paste is crystalised antifreeze from ages past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted August 28, 2018 Report Share Posted August 28, 2018 Interesting as on Saturday i removed the water inlet on the pump housing next to the sender,fitting it to my new engine with an alloy housing,the pipe was 90% blocked by large flakes of rust leaving only a small hole for water. Car never over heated though. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipidave Posted August 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2018 Thanks for the replies... I will be removing the heater and trying to soak out the gunk as suggested. I think that a new valve and hoses will be in order. Thanks again for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I understand that it is common for replacement valves to fail within a year. I bought one from the manufacturers (a northern engineering company. I imagine they supply all the trade) who suggested the valve is left in the open position when left on. I do this and open it up for a bit whenever I'm driving the car. The car is also used all year round regularly. Mine has been ok for over 4 years. Maybe I've just been lucky and it will fail now I've said this!. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Since fitting a new one to my car I have used the heater a couple of times just to try it, luckily the car is a convertible so the heat dissipates, I have also left in the 'on' position a couple of times between runs. I will leave it on during the winter when the car isn't used. I regularly start the car in winter just to turn the motor and dry it off. Time will tell if the valve lasts, it looked fit for purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I believe it's the diaphragm that can be/is dodgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 I had dreadful problems with my heater, but that was mostly down to the 'mongrel' nature of the engine not having the correct plumbing connections, years of crud in the heater and an air lock in the pipes at the highest point. Sorted now thanks to contributors here (see help given in 'Nose to Tail' thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 3 hours ago, daverclasper said: I bought one from the manufacturers (a northern engineering company. I imagine they supply all the trade) who suggested the valve is left in the open position when left on. I never turn mine off; there's no point in a GT6 and besides it helps with cooling. Even in the Heralds (which are all Delaney Gallay units) leaving the heater on makes only a marginal difference to the cabin temperature unless the blower is turned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: . Even in the Heralds (which are all Delaney Gallay units) leaving the heater on makes only a marginal difference to the cabin temperature unless the blower is turned on. My 13/60 is fitted with a Smith's heater. Yes the difference without the blower is not massive, more so in a convertible with the hood down. With the blower on and hood down & set to give hot air to feet there is a noticeable difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 there plenty of remote cable or manual alternatives may need a bit of hose plumbing places like www.carbuildersolutions.com pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipidave Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just for a bit of an update... nothing would shift the hard powdery residue in the heater valve... not that is until a friend suggested soaking in Coca Cola ... so having tried lots of "solvents" in my ultra sonic bath... may seem odd but where all else failed... it worked!!! 😀😀👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 That white stuff in the valve was probably aluminium oxide - the valve is made in cast alloy. Al2O3 reacts with weak organic acids, like citric or acetic acid (vinegar). Coke cleans metals as it contains another such acid, phosphoric acid (it gives it its 'bite'!). Phophoric acid is a useful final cleaner for rusted steel as the result is iron phosphate which is insoluble, and forms a hard coating on the metal that is a good basis for painting. But care! Phosphoric acid will dissolve aluminim too! More solvents for Al2O3 are 'aromatic organic solvents. Ethanol will work, but it must be more than 95%, and who would waste good whisky on it anyway? Fiercer agents such as Xylene or Toluene will work too, but these are definitely TOXIC! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 I use Citric acid in the water heater in my Motorhome, a couple of times a Year, (Hard Water area). That seems to keep it clean and working OK. Phosphoric acid was a "favourite" for cleaning Sea water distillation plants in marine environments back in the 60`s 70`s. BTW. has anyone come up with a way to make the Heater (motor) into a 2 or 3 speed fan?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 No, but the Project Binky Boys did for their Mini. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Doug had a nice brass valve in his pocket on twiddle day but we didnt discuss it , The valve can be stripped, but there are much simpler and easy use variants are available for cable pulled controlls Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 13 hours ago, JohnD said: No, but the Project Binky Boys did for their Mini. JOhn Hi Can you post a Link?. I would be very interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 57 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: Doug had a nice brass valve in his pocket on twiddle day but we didnt discuss it , The valve can be stripped, but there are much simpler and easy use variants are available for cable pulled controlls Black and white pic unfortunately, but shiny brass in real life. Very easy and smooth to operate unlike the thing it's shortly to replace. rlubikey from East Berks put me on to it, he has one on his Spitfire. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Doug- I am interested in one too. I assume that it will fit my mkiv spit. Do you have a link please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 2 hours ago, PeteH said: Hi Can you post a Link?. I would be very interested. The Binky Boys really went overboard on their in-cabin conditioning - full air con! - but you might not want to follow them all the way. Even if you have the skills - I dont! Starting about halfway through, after the power steering malarky. And they used an MGZR fan. See: http://www.badobsessionmotorsport.co.uk/parts-and-materials/ (the BO Boys have some truely obsessive, not to say larger, fans!) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Badwolf said: Doug- I am interested in one too. I assume that it will fit my mkiv spit. Do you have a link please? Hi BadWolf. I got mine from Amazon.com - Four Seasons 74648 Heater Valve. However, the threaded fitting is for GT6, TR6, or a Spit with 6-cylinders, where the valve threads straight on to the engine or the manifold via an adaptor. Your Spit will have a hose on both sides of the valve, and the valve is mounted on a bracket on the "shelf" at the back of the bonnet area. For you, your Spit would want an in-line version. Trouble is, I don't know which one you need as your Spit will be pull to close I think. Four Seasons Heater Valves 74677 Four Seasons Heater Valves 74678 Four Seasons Heater Valves 74685 Four Seasons Heater Valves 74764 Four Seasons Heater Valves 74827 and there are possibly others. One of the above are fitted to London Taxis so available this side of the pond. The other thing is, how are you going to mount it on the bracket? Or would you leave it just floating in front of the bulkhead? On my one the hose size is 5/8ths, but you can persuade the 1/2" hose to fit! Also, because the cable pull was wrong for Spits (correct for GT6 & TR6, i.e. pull for open), I took my valve apart by lifting the tabs and turning the plate to face the other direction to make it pull to close. It was only later I found they do one like this which I could have bought instead! Another place you can buy these sort of parts is RockAuto. The parts come from America, but if you chose their courier delivery, they will pay the VAT and save the UK delivery "Poll Tax". However, if you find the part on Amazon, it says they will deliver to "your address", which they know is UK, and they will pay the VAT. It took several tries, but eventually I got that system to work and it was cheaper than RockAuto. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 do have a browse at www.carbuildersolutions.com https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/cbs_catalogue.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Richard, Thanks for explaining all that! It's simpler than it sounds once you see the pictures. Are you coming to East Berks tomorrow? Paul and Colin have promised not to talk about their operations. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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