Metal protection inside panels

[DJB350Z]

What is the recommended approach to converting rust / protecting the metal in hard to reach places like inside panels and under the dashboard etc.?

I've seen some products that come in a tub with a long tube that you blindly aim and spray with. I guess that's the trick, but are there any specific products or alternatives to look out for?

Thanks

[dannyb]

I used Waxoyl which has protected the car very well over the last 20 odd years I've have owned it. Comes in a can with a had pump and wand. You need to get the waxoyl hot otherwise its impossible to pump.

The only downside is if you do need to do some welding you need a fire extinguisher because it's like a giant candle. 😁

Danny

[Clive]

Afraid I have found waxoil to dry out and lift, although I suspect mixing with some oil would help.

The best stuff is Dynax S50 which is usually supplied in a huge aerosol with a very long flexi tube so you can do sills/chassis internals etc.  Dinitrol do something which performs as well as the dynax, but not sure about aerosols.  These are both REALLY thin and runny, designed to soak into any surface rust rather than sit on top. And thin enough to "creep" into seams etc.

There are some good wheelarch protection waxes from the same 2 companies. I have had teh Dinitrol one on my spit for 30k+ miles, all weathers, and the original stuff is still all there. I was expecting to top up annually.

[Colin Lindsay]

The Waxoyl v Dinitrol et al debate is very widely discussed on the forum; you'll find the same answers in each post for and against. I use Waxoyl as, many years ago, I won a huge container in a competition... I just keep it topped up with new stuff and reapply every year, whether needed or not. You're supposed to soften it by standing the container in boiling water; I found that standing it on a gas burner works amazingly well so long as you keep a good watch and don't let it explode... but with an air-powered shutz gun it can achieve quite a jet especially inside the chassis rails. 

One of the POs of my Herald decided it was a good idea to spray the stuff everywhere, including the entire underside of the bonnet, and all round the door shuts and boot lid. It's now very dirty looking and difficult to remove.

[68vitesse]

Have used Waxoyl in the past diluted with white spirit to aid spraying, used a cleaned out Schultz can and spray gun, don't kink the delivery tube or the can will explode making a lovely mess.

Regards

Paul 

[Unkel Kunkel]

I have used Waxoyl and Dinitrol over the years 

They are slightly different Wxl.is waxey, Dntl.more oily but both do their job.

Don’t use either now as a few years ago I came across  a different product from a motor factors which I regard as superior to both:

Kent Wax Coat

Easier to use, remarkably tenacious and come in shutz  cans or aerosol with a fairly long probe.

 opaque brown, sl less  oily than  Dntl  much less waxy than Wxl.

Doesn’t don’t need diluting and (depending on time of year)  doesn’t need any warming*

The aerosol has a lance ( which I was surprised to find actually works ) which is easily long enough for doors, sills and most other cavities including some chassis areas 

And it has quite a  nice smell.

I note that I put the price on the aerosol -£7.40 in Dec 22( a slightly discounted  price) 

Apart from Kent I have found another product by INDASA  very similar.

 

*If you use Waxoyl, it almost always requires diluting - and warming.

It is flammable, especially diluted with white spirit.

Being a conscientious  and dedicated coward, I would not heat it over any form of naked flame.

 

[Pete Lewis]

28 minutes ago, Unkel Kunkel said:

It is flammable,

ive said before  we needed a quick weld to the glass aperture corner crack  after repainting  and  good waxing .

and whoomph   flames 8ft high   didnt damage the paint but nearly took the workshop roof  soon extinguished  and took ages to clear up the powder which goes everywhere

so flamable  ....Erm   YES   

Pete 

[cliff.b]

3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

ive said before  we needed a quick weld to the glass aperture corner crack  after repainting  and  good waxing .

and whoomph   flames 8ft high   didnt damage the paint but nearly took the workshop roof  soon extinguished  and took ages to clear up the powder which goes everywhere

so flamable  ....Erm   YES   

Pete 

 

8 hours ago, clive said:

Afraid I have found waxoil to dry out and lift, although I suspect mixing with some oil would help.

The best stuff is Dynax S50 which is usually supplied in a huge aerosol with a very long flexi tube so you can do sills/chassis internals etc.  Dinitrol do something which performs as well as the dynax, but not sure about aerosols.  These are both REALLY thin and runny, designed to soak into any surface rust rather than sit on top. And thin enough to "creep" into seams etc.

There are some good wheelarch protection waxes from the same 2 companies. I have had teh Dinitrol one on my spit for 30k+ miles, all weathers, and the original stuff is still all there. I was expecting to top up annually.

After reading up on the various options I used Dynax last year and certainly found it easy to apply using the aerosol and wand supplied.

Insert fully through a drain hole into say a sill, then withdraw it while spraying. 

Time will tell if it is effective but the description of how it works makes sense. I'm sure it said it's used on oil rigs 🤔

 

[foshi]

not environmentally friendly now. but i used to use old engine oil worked well back in the day payl

[ahebron]

7 hours ago, foshi said:

not environmentally friendly now. but i used to use old engine oil worked well back in the day payl

And thern drive along a dusty road to coat it in place till next year😉

[Peter Truman]

I used to plug the holes in the chassis fill it up with a couple of engine oil changes oil then drive up onto the moors and pull the plugs out, let it drain out making a future peat site!

 

[PeteH]

"OLD" engine oil was ever a favourite, Father would spend hours under the Old (1940`s) Hilman, with a brush, painting everything he coud get at. He joked more than once the he did more Oil painting than Piccasso!. That and forever adjusting the old Bendix cable brakes.

Pete

[DJB350Z]

Thanks for the recommendations. 

Are they all flammable due to the nature of the wax, or is it just Waxoyl and Dinitrol specifically? Sounds mildly terrifying..

What sort of quantity would I need for the cavities inside the tub, doors and dashboard?

[chrishawley]

If it's just the tub internals (including sills) then I'd make an estimate of 3 off of 500ml can, taking Dinitrol ML as an example. Doors only need a gnats since once the seams are soaked the door skin itself only needs a waft. A-post similarly. Wings/rear quartersback of b-posts maybe half a can each side max. Sills can use up a quite lot in getting both sides of the sill stiffener because of working blind so having to be generous in the application.

In ordinary use there's not much to worry about fire wise. But subsequent application of a welding torch or naked flame is dangerous. I've had 25 year old Waxoyl go into 'slow burn' inside enclosed sections when welding - not easy to put out.

Worth being mindful of the potential for waxes to create problems with subsequent painting either by local creep (e.g. sill seams) or spread by aerosol. It does not wipe off at all easily even with proper degreasant.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Like paint, they need a solvent to thin them as they're applied and then to evaporate off, so yes they're all flammable. 

I've never yet found a fit-and-forget application, hence my yearly renewal. I'll literally fill the chassis and let it drip out, plus bottoms of doors and rear wings, so need larger quantities, but a five litre tin does for all that. You may get away with one litre. After that an aerosol does for yearly renewal of anywhere that looks in need. I bought something like a dozen cans for £50 on eBay a while back, so have a supply for the next few years...

[Unkel Kunkel]

The “old engine oil” method is definitely  not one I would go for.

There are far more pleasant liquids to use for a job that isn’t frequently needed, and even they don’t make the job that much fun!

Over the last 40 years , it has become recognized that using old engine oil ( other issues apart)  means that after spending an afternoon guddling around in the filthy stuff and finally emerging looking  like the “creature from the black lagoon” , it really isn’t that good as an anti-rust treatment  mainly because of the acidic contaminants.

 

[DJB350Z]

Ok, good point about the overspray. Also wasn't aware it needs topping up every 1-2 years.

Will probably punt for 2-3 cans of Dynax S50 and see how I go.

[foshi]

str

3 hours ago, Unkel Kunkel said:

The “old engine oil” method is definitely  not one I would go for.

There are far more pleasant liquids to use for a job that isn’t frequently needed, and even they don’t make the job that much fun!

Over the last 40 years , it has become recognized that using old engine oil ( other issues apart)  means that after spending an afternoon guddling around in the filthy stuff and finally emerging looking  like the “creature from the black lagoon” , it really isn’t that good as an anti-rust treatment  mainly because of the acidic contaminants.

 

seems to work well around the herald vitesse engine cross member where the engine leaks , sure no one uses old engine oil anymore .

[Unkel Kunkel]

7 hours ago, foshi said:

str

seems to work well around the herald vitesse engine cross member where the engine leaks , sure no one uses old engine oil anymore .

I know what you mean - around engine and gearbox, we've all seen it.

This is oil leakage  / mist that began to land on fresh new paint even  before our  cars even  left the showroom, going on to protect the the paint and hence the metal, even when there were  small breaks in it  - a continuing process over  years.

I think this is different to trying to protect other areas like hidden box areas which have had no or very little prior protection. Years on, that   old oil is coming  pretty late on the scene and in some areas the process is well underway.

If you have to use oil.at a guess EP gear oil would seem more tenacious.

- it’s just that there are better things now.

[Jon J 1250]

Original owner of my Herald painted old oil underneath it and in wheel arches.

He seemed to know exactly the places these cars rot hence why after 60 years the bonnet has not rot in it at all.

I've owned the car 30 years (always garages and kept dry) and I've never done this as it makes such a mess, plus even now when i work on the car I still get far more grease and black grot on my hands than I would had this not been done.

I have found the old oil has allowed quite a bit of surface rust to develop on the panels underneath largely because Triumph painted it with no more than a thin black/brown enamel from the factory, and of course it hasn't saved the double skinned treadplates.

I am slowly working through removing all the dirty old oil, stripping any surface rust to bear metal and priming/repainting those areas in black brown enamel, with touch of body colour overspray as per factory.

Then I am protecting all of that with Lanoguard (lanolin) clear wax, which being a sheeps wool extract is far less unpleasant to use than mineral oil based products.

This has been very successful so far, plus being clear wax with a normal coat of paint underneath means I will be able to see any rust developing so can deal with it immediately, rather than being hidden by some thick black goo until it is too late.

JJ