Badwolf Posted June 25, 2020 Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: My last sump plug was NCP... I found it in a car park.... Colin - Have you got the address or a link, then we can all go and look for one.. I assume that it does fit... sort of around the whole car.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 25, 2020 Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 Made page 5... with a cr*p gag. Onwards to page 6!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted June 25, 2020 Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 I was intrigued when someone quoted that the female or boss welded into the sump was a parallel NPT thread, as when I ran the 3/8in NPT tapered tap through it penetrated the boss easily for a good distance. So on a cold 5C morning here in Melbourne I went into the garage in my jarmies to measure the spare GT6 sump I have, wouldn't dare bring it into the warm house. The welded in boss for the sump plug is 11.5mm long, the inside the sump boss ID is 14.78mm, and the external sump boss ID 15.08mm, appears to be a 0.3mm taper in 11.5mm? Two of the 3 spare tapered 3/8in NPT threaded sump plugs I have measured 16.2mm at its end (14.8mm thread root) and 17.2mm (15.9mm thread root) at the top over the threads, over length of 13.3mm, the third plug was slightly smaller dia's but same taper. So the plug has a taper of 1mm in 13mm length, whereas the female boss 0.3mm in 11.5mm. In the finality I don't think I proved anything, except I got cold! Is the sump boss tapered or not or is the dia change due to years or screwing the tapered plug into and enlarging the boss ID? Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted June 25, 2020 Report Share Posted June 25, 2020 A tapered Tap is not for cutting a tapered thread ! The taper is at the start of the tap to enable it to start cutting in the hole that has been drilled. normally a set of taps consists of two taper taps and a plug tap. Start cutting with the most tapered one, then the less tapered one and then the plug tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Kevin I understand re the staged tapping must admit I thought they were for blind holes, I have several sets of 3 taps in their individual box's for metric and Whit which were hand me downs from an old fitter, unfortunately no UNF's, those were single parallel single taps. The run of the mill el cheepo UNF tap and die set I use (35+ years) have a single tap for each size , each starts with a short taper then a parallel section say 30mm long usually used for re-threading, but sometimes to cut a new thread. Mind you that UNF set is a bit like the woodman's axe, how many new handles and axe heads. The 3/8in NPT tap I brought was purchased as a taper thread & if run right through would be too large for a bolt or sump plug which would be loose, I had to be cautious and just tap the min depth. to ensure a good seal. Thanks for your clarification and expertise all helps to the knowledge base, will we make page 6. Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad4classics Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 On 25/06/2020 at 23:42, Peter Truman said: I was intrigued when someone quoted that the female or boss welded into the sump was a parallel NPT thread, as when I ran the 3/8in NPT tapered tap through it penetrated the boss easily for a good distance. So on a cold 5C morning here in Melbourne I went into the garage in my jarmies to measure the spare GT6 sump I have, wouldn't dare bring it into the warm house. The welded in boss for the sump plug is 11.5mm long, the inside the sump boss ID is 14.78mm, and the external sump boss ID 15.08mm, appears to be a 0.3mm taper in 11.5mm? Two of the 3 spare tapered 3/8in NPT threaded sump plugs I have measured 16.2mm at its end (14.8mm thread root) and 17.2mm (15.9mm thread root) at the top over the threads, over length of 13.3mm, the third plug was slightly smaller dia's but same taper. So the plug has a taper of 1mm in 13mm length, whereas the female boss 0.3mm in 11.5mm. In the finality I don't think I proved anything, except I got cold! Is the sump boss tapered or not or is the dia change due to years or screwing the tapered plug into and enlarging the boss ID? Peter T Gallant job on a cold winters morning I must say. I'm still scratching my head over your figures. NPT taper is 1inch change in diameter or every 16inches of thread length for all thread sizes; which as it's a simple ratio can be expressed as 1mm in 16mm. So to my way of thinking:- For a plug length of 13mm the change in diameter from start to finish should be 1/16 x 13 = 0.8125mm For a boss depth of 11.5 the change in diameter from start to finish should be 1/16 x 11.5 = 0.71875mm Seems strange to me that a sump thread would be parallel as the sealing would only be on the very first thread of the boss, unless the idea was that the boss being mild steel would distort in preference to the case iron plug - odd. Something "below the water line" (you know what I mean) surely needs a half decent seal? (Random thought: is it an easier manufacturing method to use a parallel first tap and follow it up with the taper finishing tap but not all the way through - just enough to provide a seal, thus distorting the measured figures. It's the sort of thing I'd do to cut a taper fitting - hard work with just a finishing tap)? David PS. Have a soft spot for the other end of the world (reference to the book by R.K.Dean); when a whippersnapper my family emigrated to NZ for a time; still have my crossing the line certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Mad4classics said: PS. Have a soft spot for the other end of the world (reference to the book by R.K.Dean); when a whippersnapper my family emigrated to NZ for a time; still have my crossing the line certificate. Is it true that in the Southern Hemisphere, threads run in the opposite direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Colin, only on turnbuckles we put them in backwards! so the LH thread is right and the RH thread is left!, confussed! David, the taper on my NPT tap appears to be around 1.5mm in 25mm or 1 in 16 approx. Hey searching thro my surplus taps today I found a band new 3/8 BSP non taper tap Why did I buy that, can't think wat I'd use that on? David if you really want to get confused follow my travels as a kid till I got married, born England NEfeb 45, left around June 45 for Toronto Canada, left there for Melb Aus in 49, was brought up here till I was 16, returned to England in 62, finished school started work, in the 11 years I was supposedly a resident of the UK, I spent around 50% of the time overseas working in Canada, USA, Sth Africa, Brazil, Greece, France & Korea. The Co I worked for was very large built Chem Plants, Oil Refineries, Blast Furnaces & Rolling Mills, & Gas Production facilities pre natural gas. Dad was a senior Exec & Director hence our many moves. In 72 they wanted me to move to London I said no and left, couldn't have stood all that public transport travel, so got a job in the Water Industry Operations & that is how I came to return to Melbourne in 74, where I continued my Water Operations employment, retiring in 2001( I had 30 company cars in 27 years, really, we only kept them for 2 years or 45,000klm, & I averaged 50,000klm per annum! the last time I caught public transport, a train was August 1974), after retiring l consulted back for the next 13 years before hanging up my train set, that's what I called the water supply network shunting water from the harvesting dams to seasonal storages, transfer reservoirs, service reservoirs & to customer tap. The irony of when I was working in the UK for the large Petro Chem & heavy engineering Co in the NE, my wife was the secretary to the MD of our main opposition, and when I was tendering international jobs I was sleeping with the enemy! It caused some funny events, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Is it true that in the Southern Hemisphere, threads run in the opposite direction? Water does, goes down the plug hole clockwise in northern hemisphere counter clockwise in southern and straight down at the equator. I thought this was relevant as the post is about sump plugs... 😁 So when the oil spurts out of the sump plug, before it hopefully reaches the catch tray does it try to rotate as above or does it require a reaction to another object to rotate? Help I need a physicist! Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 begin to feel a psychologist is more suitable Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Pete, it's Friday the weekend is with us, lots to do, places to go, people to see. Sorry I'm having flash backs! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 well the oil wont spurt out as know one can remove the ruddy plug !!!! square or hex who cares Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, Iain T said: Water does, goes down the plug hole clockwise in northern hemisphere counter clockwise in southern and straight down at the equator. I thought this was relevant as the post is about sump plugs... 😁 So when the oil spurts out of the sump plug, before it hopefully reaches the catch tray does it try to rotate as above or does it require a reaction to another object to rotate? Help I need a physicist! Iain Difference being that bathwater runs down the plug hole, whereas the oil runs out of the plug hole but you're not allowed to dispose of it down the plughole... Maybe it's time to pull the plug on this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: begin to feel a psychologist is more suitable You may be right, had a dream last night about making a press tool for an airbag knee restraint pressing. I kid thee not it's true, I need help! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Water does, goes down the plug hole clockwise in northern hemisphere counter clockwise in southern and straight down at the equator. Of course, it does. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 It's working nearly on page 6! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 we dont have a bath just a shower and i dare not pull the trap and use a plughole cleaner, or the water just fills the tray no circulation or spiral emptying noted heaven knows what she puts down it , had it got a drain plug im sure to have tried to remove it Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulfc Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Just an update: rummaged through my loose tools’ box and was able to construct a reverse socket solution, as per Pete Lewis, based on a 1/2” drive and it worked an absolute treat. Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 dont you just like the cheapo solutions ha ! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Did I read somewhere in the content there was ref to a 3/8sq socket I've used the 1/2in on very troublesome gearbox sump drain plugs can't remember how I got a double female sq socket but I'll go to the Kingchrome warehouse to see if they have one if they do I'll get a 1/2 and 3/8 versions. I know the 1/2in was a bit loose so maybe the 3/8in is a better fit, I'll try it with my spare plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Would not the threads in the boss act like rifling in a gun barrel and cause the oil to start to spin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted June 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Whichever way it goes it never goes where I expect ! I’ve a supply of soak up to clear up the mess afterwards! 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 to get a ratchet on a reversed socket a 5/16"whit/1/4 bsf fits a 1/2"drive a 7/16"af fits a 3 /8"drive must be Bi Hex Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 All of my sump plugs have always been 7/16" square. A 1/2" double hex fits snugly enough if they've not been gorilla'd. I don't have a 7/16 drive socket set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 1/8NPT. Tap past all the way in. Still seals. No washer. Two pressure senders.No order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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