Clutch

[watsona6]

Evening. Having a few issues with my clutch. It’s as if the biting point is getting lower at times. Usually when I’m idling at the lights with the clutch engaged. When I come to move off I get a surprise as to how low the clutch engages. Have recently dropped and added gearbox oil - could this need bleeding? Is it that simple? Thanks. 

[Clive]

Is it only after your foot has been down on the clutch a while? And always ok if you put your foot down/change gear or no waiting?

If so, I would suggest the small seal in the master cylinder. Fluid maybe leaking past back into the reservoir.

However, bleeding the hydraulic system and filling with fresh fluid may do the trick. But rebuild/seal kits are cheap, about a fiver. 

Of course, it may be something else altogether...(depending on exactly when it happens)

[Pete Lewis]

im with Clive  there are only two seals in the M cyl.  one seals the reservoir as soon as you press the pedal  and the main cup seal 

doesnt take muxh sea; wear to allow the pressure loss and pedal creep.

the slave can also have a seal problem , you may find a pool of fluid under the boot ans thats also worth a look at the master cyl push rod boot , which will then leak down the pedal arm

Pete

[daverclasper]

Also, maybe not good to hold the clutch down, as causes thrust washer wear?, or am I being anal again ? (I even just dip my clutch a tiny bit, when going through the gears).

Dave 

Edited October 11, 2019 by daverclasper

[Guest]

3 hours ago, daverclasper said:

Also, maybe not good to hold the clutch down, as causes thrust washer wear

You are correct Dave. Unnecessary depression of the clutch other than gear changing and to control the car during a slow manoeuvre accelerates wear on thrust washers.

Many say you should depress the clutch fully when starting a car, to reduce the load. That is an incorrect practice and the car should be started without depressing the clutch pedal.

I know on many modern cars (mine for example) you cannot start the car unless you depress the clutch - I guess modern engineering has changed and the above rule no longer applies regarding wear. Have to say I do not know the rationale behind that, perhaps someone on here does ??

Regards.

Richard. 

[Pete Lewis]

the only load you save with depressing the clutch is if there is a gearbox with serious drag to load the starter

then there is the thrust friction which adds to the lack of gearbox drag  , there is no significant drag on 3 rail or single rail to warrant any daft actions 

foot off as much as possible rules apply 

Pete

[68vitesse]

6 hours ago, classiclife said:

I know on many modern cars (mine for example) you cannot start the car unless you depress the clutch - I guess modern engineering has changed and the above rule no longer applies regarding wear. Have to say I do not know the rationale behind that, perhaps someone on here does ??

Regards.

Richard. 

Same on my modern, assumed it was a safety issue in case the car was in gear.

Regards

Paul

[Guest]

I reckon you are correct Paul - does not say much about the standard of driving these days; always thought it was a given to check before firing up.

Park Assist - the same principle as taking over for those who cannot reverse !!

Regards.

Richard.

[Chris A]

My Skoda won't start unless the clutch pedal is depressed. If the aim is to prevent a car from starting if it is in gear a simple cut out with light and warning would do the job.

All these modern 'aids' ! The one I'm waiting for is driverless. That way I can send the car to the supermarket to do the shopping while I stay in bed 

[Colin Lindsay]

36 minutes ago, Chris A said:

The one I'm waiting for is driverless. 

No no no no no no!

Once that happens, we'll all be banned from driving as the machine will no doubt be safer. That may be a step forward, and no doubt in years to come people will look back and laugh at those who used to have to operate their own cars with all these pedals and levers, but that's ok if they know nothing better. Me, I prefer the fun of actually driving myself.

[Qu1ckn1ck]

6 hours ago, classiclife said:

You are correct Dave. Unnecessary depression of the clutch other than gear changing and to control the car during a slow manoeuvre accelerates wear on thrust washers.

Many say you should depress the clutch fully when starting a car, to reduce the load. That is an incorrect practice and the car should be started without depressing the clutch pedal.

I know on many modern cars (mine for example) you cannot start the car unless you depress the clutch - I guess modern engineering has changed and the above rule no longer applies regarding wear. Have to say I do not know the rationale behind that, perhaps someone on here does ??

Regards.

Richard. 

The interlock to stop your modern car being started unless the clutch is depressed is surely for safety in case some senile old buffer like me has left the car in gear. 

[Gully]

Even after over 6 years of Triumph ownership I still find it odd to start the car without dipping the clutch. I was taught to do it back in the 80s as it 'reduced the load on the starter' by disengaging flywheel etc. All my moderns in recent times have required it, so feels very odd not to.

As for the interlock on modern cars, I found out earlier this week that my Skoda Octavia will happily start in 1st gear and drive off - the clutch had failed and it was the only way to limp the car to the garage...

Gully

[daverclasper]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

No no no no no no!

Once that happens, we'll all be banned from driving as the machine will no doubt be safer. That may be a step forward, and no doubt in years to come people will look back and laugh at those who used to have to operate their own cars with all these pedals and levers, but that's ok if they know nothing better. Me, I prefer the fun of actually driving myself.

I know. We will become even more like the "bots", ourselves. Maybe?.

[Badwolf]

Reminds me of one of the Smash advert with the 'Martians'.

[daverclasper]

23 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Reminds me of one of the Smash advert with the 'Martians'.

So, maybe not too much after all, Am I getting paranoid.

Edited October 11, 2019 by daverclasper

[Colin Lindsay]

31 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Reminds me of one of the Smash advert with the 'Martians'.

"Then they smash them all to bits! Ha ha ha ha ha!"

 

[Badwolf]

I really should NOT encourage you all..... but its fun, its Friday, there's nowt worth watching on the box.....and here I sit with a glass of sherry and a few friends that I have never met. Life has its good side

[Colin Lindsay]

10 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

there's nowt worth watching on the box

I'm grateful to TV adverts for making me go and do something else. Currently polishing boots, texting mates, surfing this and wishing I had chocolate. If things get really bad I'll go back out to the garage.

[Pete Lewis]

Well we have drifted from clutch depression to mashed potatoe   

And you want chocolate

Theres no hope

Pete

[poppyman]

After reading this, i have just got depression but like you say there is only pony and trap on the box.....

Tony.

[Clive]

Back to moderns etc...

Most clutch bearings are now hydraulic, and have a spring that permanently presses the bearing against the clutch, and so the crank against the thrusts.

However, having stripped the Ford engine I used in my spit, (2003 era) it had 100K on it. And all the crank bearings, including the thrusts (part of the main bearing) were as new. So all the issues we have with our old Triumphs just don't seem an issue now. (it is just all the extra emission stuff that seems to be a problem instead)

I reckon it is partly down to machining accuracy, material quality, developed design and higher spec oils. 

(and having spent 3 weeks on the USA, be grateful for the adverts we get here. I flicked the telly on a handful of times, the adverts are just horrendous.....number and content. Telly never stayed on for more than a few minutes, 1000 channels and nothing worth watching)

[Pete Lewis]

If it wasnt for the recording of old favourites much of tv is getting awful, and as for the film rent channels are as bad as wandering the olde video store with racks of absolute junk, amazon netflix virgin all have the same who watches this awful content

Titles mean nothing  horrendous story lines , theres better  on a cornflake packet 

Then theres the shoping channels ,  who gets hooked   on  their diatribe must haves .

 

And most moderns cranks have a full diameter thrust on both main shells so a vasty bigger area of contact than the 60s  half moons 

But apart from a few disasters have managed 40 plus years of abuse

Well the  poppy the cat got me up early 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

I made a coffee just a few minutes ago, fired up the TV... it took so long to start up - one of these low energy thingies - that I turned it off and came back to the PC.

I've a Ford Fiesta to MOT tomorrow and the handbrake needs tightened up. That will be more entertaining than TV.

In THAT car if you go out of gear and let the clutch out, the engine stops. In years gone by that was a serious fault.

[dougbgt6]

Trying to grasp how that could be MOTable😆 unless you have an “arrangement” with the MOT man? 😎

db

[Colin Lindsay]

 

4 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

Trying to grasp how that could be MOTable😆 unless you have an “arrangement” with the MOT man? 😎

db

Rodney, you plonker. Not a serious problem for the MOT - just for Triumphs in general! Press the clutch, engine stops...

Oh, Lord. This forum!