Mintex 1144

[thescrapman]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

 

Now to be serious. I did not know there was a real issue with brake pads?. My understanding was they must be equal to the O-E. to be legally sold ?

Pete

I can assure you that many currently available pads bear no resemblance to OE ones. Maybe more to the cardboard box boxes the OE ones came in.

Shame JohnD has Vitesse calipers or I would send him the pads from my Herald estate. They were dire.

[johny]

I cant understand why current pads are so poor when used on my Vitesse while ok on modern vehicles - it can only be down to the servos installed nowadays and us not having strong enough legs to mimic them😳 

[JohnD]

Even sadder, I have Austin Princess four pots.   I fitted them before I understood friction, and thought 'Four pistons! Bigger pads! Must make me stop quicker!"      Not true, and fade was a much bigger problem on track, which venteds cured.

But I just don't belive that even 'cooking' pads will be as dire as you say, as long as they are genuine and not made of carbonised cork.    If merely fitting a different set of pads made a revelutionary difference, then you changed something else at the same time.

John

[johny]

I went new discs with Greenstuff pads and once fully bedded in found then unacceptable so changed to NOS pads which have made it safe.

[Colin Lindsay]

23 minutes ago, johny said:

I went new discs with Greenstuff pads and once fully bedded in found then unacceptable so changed to NOS pads which have made it safe.

Yes, I binned my Greenstuff pads within a month of fitting. I didn't like them at all.

I don't have any NOS 1960s pads in the garage, as I don't know what they're made of, so won't be fitting them to the Herald when it gets that far, neither the type 12s nor the type 14s.  

 

[johny]

Many NOS have a big 'a' symbol on them so you know whats in them and take the appropriate precautions👍

[PeteH]

There is a lot of false information around the use of Asbestos. It was (and is) a particularly good (excelent?) product. BUT, it had a downside. So long as you are aware of the hazard and treat it with respect. There is IMV many far more lethal products "out there".

This come from someone who is actually on the asbestos register. As I spent my younger life working on Ships which had more "asbestos" that you can imagine. When in later years I moved to Inspection work, Much of the Heating Insulation in many estabishments including care homes and hospitals, STILL had asbestos in it. We sampled, tested, and more often than not, sealed the "lagging" with paint or similar and the merely marked it with it`s "type". The only time it was removed was when major work was carried out, then it was removed under strict conditions and disposed of in acordance with "safe" proceedures. There is a lot of "fear" around this subject, it just needs treating properly.

EDIT:-

As for servo assist, That IMV only makes the effort less obvious. The Braking effect ultimately is the pad(s) on the disks ?

[JohnD]

I think I've told before of the respect with which I treated a length of asbestos guttering, cutting it in half to fit car under a stream of water, actchinf that in a bucket with newspapers, wrapped and sealed for transport.   The "recycling operative" told me to chuck it in the bin.

[PeteH]

3 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I think I've told before of the respect with which I treated a length of asbestos guttering, cutting it in half to fit car under a stream of water, actchinf that in a bucket with newspapers, wrapped and sealed for transport.   The "recycling operative" told me to chuck it in the bin.

Sound`s about right. I happen to know where there are several Ton`s of Asbestos, buried, back in the 80`s. No one wants to open it up and "dispose" of it. So it will lie there until it`s "half life" expires I asume?. After WW2, there where "Pre-Fabs" built, many of Asbestos Cladding. It was only later that folk got worried about it. Some where actually just "bricked" up with an exterior cladding. There are I suspect still a few about?.

[Nick Jones]

Problem with most modern pad compounds is that they are designed for cars with servos. Therefore too hard and too lacking in bite for cars without.

I have a servo on my GT6, so the brakes work fine with standard Ferodo pads, if lacking in initial bite before the servo wakes up, which is a bit disconcerting and makes it harder to drive smoothly in stop/start traffic.

Vitesse has M1144 for the bite and vented discs for the heat resistance and the brakes are excellent. The DS2500 with solid discs work pretty well too and did good service for many years (good thing, very expensive pads!). Couldn’t handle dry weather track days in the end - cooked the calipers as well as the pads though to be fair they still worked fairly well.

Nick

[thescrapman]

Had a look at the 1144 pads I have ready to fit to the 2000, and no mention at all about not being suitable for road use anywhere on box. Though they are described as “Racing Pads”.

So wonder if I need to sell the box to anyone who is worried. 🙂

I purchased them from a MG specialist in the Netherlands, not sure if that makes a difference.

[PeteH]

So, I am wandering the village with the dog a 8am, and decide to take note of the brakes on "modern" cars, (yes, I am that sad!) But in light of this thread it occurs to me that most of the moderns have Large ventilated front disks, most are 10" or larger. Whilst not able to confirm, I would surmise that all are at least "twin pot". Along with the likelyhood of a decent Servo, it is no wonder that they cope with what we would describe as "inferior" pad material?.

Pete

[Nick Jones]

The other aspect to it is service interval. Modern car pads are hard so they last a long time. Typically by the time the pads are worn out, the discs are too. On some of the cheaper aftermarket makes the pads outlast the discs (yes Eurocraparts I’m looking at you!)

Nick

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Nick Jones said:

The other aspect to it is service interval. Modern car pads are hard so they last a long time. Typically by the time the pads are worn out, the discs are too. On some of the cheaper aftermarket makes the pads outlast the discs (yes Eurocraparts I’m looking at you!)

Nick

Very true; in all of my recent moderns I've had to replace discs; currently the Mondeo needs rear discs as they're warped. They seem to warp at the drop of a hat.

[Anglefire]

My current modern has done 37k on its current set of pads - last service a couple of weeks ago said they had plenty of life yet.

My Land Rover would do about 40-50k on fronts with a disk change every other time. Always bought OEM as they did last longer - and were not any more expensive than decent alternatives. Rears would last 60-70K ish - Hand brake shoes I only replaced once in 174k - though I think they did get changed when the hand brake module was replaced under warranty.

Didn't have the BMW long enough to replace the pads (46k) 

Previous Audi's I seem to recall went through pads every 20-30K - or was that tyres? I can't remember 🤣

[ludwig113]

I notice on alot of brake threads that no-one seems to like greenstuff pads. I used to love them on my motorbikes, infact that was usually the first thing i changed to.

Has the manufacture/material/company changed in the last few years?

Strange they worked so well on bikes but not cars???

 

paul

[Clive]

1 hour ago, ludwig113 said:

I notice on alot of brake threads that no-one seems to like greenstuff pads. I used to love them on my motorbikes, infact that was usually the first thing i changed to.

Has the manufacture/material/company changed in the last few years?

Strange they worked so well on bikes but not cars???

 

paul

I had greenstuff on my last spitfire (fitted when it came to me, all unused and 4 pot calipers as well)

seemed "OK" but not reassuring. Better than unbranded pads was my feeling, not as good as asbestos pads.  And they made LOADS of dust.

[NonMember]

My Vitesse had Greenstuff pads when I bought it. The brakes were awful. I replaced them with unbranded (had some lying around) and it was actually an improvement.

[johny]

I do wonder if EBC have changed their Greenstuff formula as current boxes indicate kevlar while before I dont think they did. Might this explain why some people have had different experiences?

[Clive]

I rolled that spitfire in 2008, but bought it in 2005/6? suspect the pads had been purchased a few years before that.

Is Kevlar beneficial in pads? I know it is handy in certain applications (bullet proof vests spring to mind)

[johny]

I believe kevlar is a fibre similar to asbestos and with similar properties so assume thats why its been used....

[Clive]

8 hours ago, johny said:

I believe kevlar is a fibre similar to asbestos and with similar properties so assume thats why its been used....

Bit of digging suggests the kevlar fibres are used to bind the friction material together as well as improve wear resistance. Bu info is surprisingly difficult to find. Wiki reckons it is, as you say, used to replace asbestos. 

[ludwig113]

18 hours ago, clive said:

I had greenstuff on my last spitfire (fitted when it came to me, all unused and 4 pot calipers as well)

seemed "OK" but not reassuring. Better than unbranded pads was my feeling, not as good as asbestos pads.  And they made LOADS of dust.

yes the ones i used on motorbikes made loads of dust, maybe that's why i could bed in a set in only 2 laps of brands hatch....

[ludwig113]

i'm a couple of years off from getting my gt6 on the road(money etc) but when i do i would be willing to test various makes of pads. realistically it would only be fronts but i'm up for it.

 

paul

[Pete Lewis]

you also get kevlar in fan and cam belts

which is one reason why they dont stretch

Pete