Spitfire 1500 steel wheels

[James_D]

Hi,

 

I have acquired five steel wheels which I believe are an original set. However 3 are marked up with the Dunlop symbol followed by 957 and the other two have no symbol but are marked up LP957

The wheels look identical but would anyone know the difference between the markings?

Many thanks,

James

 

[trigolf]

If they are late 1500 Spit wheels they should be marked 5J x 13" on front face. This means they are 5" wide by 13" diameter. Mk4 Spit and very early 1500 ( I believe) Spit wheels were 4.5J x 13" . They are interchangeable as a straight swap BUT you must have the same width rims fitted all round.

The difference in the Dunlop number is possibly different batch/factory ?

Gav

 

[James_D]

[James_D]

[James_D]

Thanks Gav. They are the 4.5 inch wide. All sizes etc exactly the same, just different codes. I’m just interested to see if anyone knows why!

[Roger K]

You had me excited there - the 5Jx13 wheels must be the rarest wheels on the planet!

I've found several 5.5Jx13 wheels with the required 16mm offset, but I can't find the later 1500 wheels anywhere.

I see that your LP wheels do not have the Dunlop logo next to the 957.  I'd think they are 957s made by someone else to Dunlop spec - subcontractor, maybe?

[SpitFire6]

On 07/02/2021 at 13:54, Roger K said:

You had me excited there - the 5Jx13 wheels must be the rarest wheels on the planet!

I've found several 5.5Jx13 wheels with the required 16mm offset, but I can't find the later 1500 wheels anywhere.

I see that your LP wheels do not have the Dunlop logo next to the 957.  I'd think they are 957s made by someone else to Dunlop spec - subcontractor, maybe?

So the "correct " offset on 5.5J is 16mm? What is it for 5J? Always thought 4.5J were 20? 22mm offset?

Cheers,

Iain.

[chrishawley]

This is one for the connosieur!

They are all proper Dunlop wheels but the pressing varied ever so slightly over the years from 1970 to 1980. If you look carefully at the shoulder of the oval holes you will see they differ. The early one have shallow, soft shoulders; Whereas later (e.g. 1978) have a more proud shoulder with sharper edges. Otherwise are completely interchangeable except although it's nice to have a fully matching set on a car.

(P.S. I have one 5J wheel for sale on ebay but needs a bit of work).

(P.P.S) All Mk3 Gt6s and spitfires have 4.5J wheels except the very last Spitfires which had 5J. 5.5J were never a triumph option.

[James_D]

That’s great, thank you! I knew somebody would know. Now to get a matching set! Any idea which variant would have been fitted to a 1977 car?

[Qu1ckn1ck]

9 hours ago, chrishawley said:

This is one for the connosieur!

They are all proper Dunlop wheels but the pressing varied ever so slightly over the years from 1970 to 1980. If you look carefully at the shoulder of the oval holes you will see they differ. The early one have shallow, soft shoulders; Whereas later (e.g. 1978) have a more proud shoulder with sharper edges. Otherwise are completely interchangeable except although it's nice to have a fully matching set on a car.

(P.S. I have one 5J wheel for sale on ebay but needs a bit of work).

(P.P.S) All Mk3 Gt6s and spitfires have 4.5J wheels except the very last Spitfires which had 5J. 5.5J were never a triumph option.

If the 5.5J wheels were not a Triumph option, any idea where have they all come from ? 

Like most others now, my GT6 is fitted with 5.5J wheels and I would love to replace them with 5J's but never see any sets for sale.

[Clive]

40 minutes ago, Qu1ckn1ck said:

If the 5.5J wheels were not a Triumph option, any idea where have they all come from ? 

Like most others now, my GT6 is fitted with 5.5J wheels and I would love to replace them with 5J's but never see any sets for sale.

One of the great mysteries as to why so many cars have them.

They were a Formula Ford wheel, still are. So I expect they were sold as an upgrade via magazines etc to Triumph owners. I also wonder if dealers may have offered them.

The lovely LP923 wheels are similar story, never a factory offering, but there are quite a few out there (many are bent, they are thinner steel) I have seen a 1960's magazine advert for the LP923s.

I expect many of the 5j wheels have been thrown away over the years, people fitting the 5.5J or even fitting used wheels/tyres that look the same when the cars had low value.

[trigolf]

James,

If you're looking for a matching set of 4.5J wheels, PM me, I might be able to help.

Gav

[Roger K]

I've bought three sets of 5.5J wheels now, two of them from Mallory Park Racing School and one set from a historic FF racer.  Remember that the offset dimension is the distance of the back of the centre plate from the midline of the wheel rim.  There are 16mm, which I think are best for a 'long driveshaft' car, and 3/8 - which is 10mm-ish.  Rumour has it that there may be a 18mm, but I've never seen one.

[chrishawley]

James,

My September 1977 Spitfire ('S' reg) with all it's original fittings has 4.5Js with the 'proud and sharp' shoulder. If buying check the stamping around the periphery of the nave plate which should be exactly:

4.5 x 13  x 88

B8C

Dunlop symbol 957

312046

..and no stamping of the wheel webs.

By contrast my 1970 GT6 has the 'soft profile' with LP957 stamped on the web. 

Hope that helps.

C

[rlubikey]

I was very pleased to buy a single Spitfire oval hole 5J wheel at SEM ... except when I got it home I found it wasn't! Comparing it to a genuine one and a Formula Ford, the markings are as follows (clockwise, starting from the size):-

Genuine Spit 5J Wheel			Unknown Wheel				5.5J Formular Ford Wheel
5Jx13x22				5Jx13x39				5.5x13x16
G94					802048					E4D
D> 1217					D> 1221					D> 1144
PKC0518					PKC1327

Inside Rim				Inside Rim				Inside Rim
RSM113 5Jx13 G9 D> (Made in England) C	RSM15 5Jx13 E0 D> (Made in England) J	RSM83 5½Jx13 E4 D> (Made in England) C

D> is the Dunlop symbol, and (Made in England) is in small text at 90' to the rest.

As you can see from the markings, the wheel I bought has a different offset (39mm) to the genuine (22mm), so I should think it will shift the tyre too far inboard to fit a Spitfire.

Does anyone know what my unknown wheel is from please? The part number - well, it looks like a British Leyland era part number - is PKC1327, which I can't find anywhere on the interweb. I don't think it's Dolomite SE which was TKC4677 (according to Rimmers). Or was it a different width Formula Ford - in which case why the BL part number?

Cheers, Richard

[NonMember]

I would say Dolomite - not necessarily the SE but that inboard offset sounds Dolomite to me.

[GFL]

41 minutes ago, NonMember said:

I would say Dolomite - not necessarily the SE but that inboard offset sounds Dolomite to me.

I agree, the SE and some of the very last Dolomite's made were fitted with these Spitfire steel wheels which I think are 5J Width, presumably fitted to use up what they had left at the end of production?

Gary

 

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 Larger than 22mm offset is easy corrected with wheel spacers.

39mm ET would be corrected with a 17mm spacer for example. if a loss of 17mm stud thread was safe.

Adjusting the camber on the front would also put the scrub radius where OEM put it. Might cause other dynamic problems though!

Cheers,

Iain
 

Edited May 11, 2022 by SpitFire6
lose+ loss= fixed

[thescrapman]

Marina or Ital I think I was told.

they are used on rear of dolomites to eliminate the appearance of the wheels being right under the arches.

My brothers Dolly had them. Looked much better.

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, thescrapman said:

Marina or Ital I think I was told.

That's possible; they used holes as well as slots on different models.

 

[AlanT]

On 07/02/2021 at 13:54, Roger K said:

You had me excited there - the 5Jx13 wheels must be the rarest wheels on the planet!

I've found several 5.5Jx13 wheels with the required 16mm offset, but I can't find the later 1500 wheels anywhere.

I see that your LP wheels do not have the Dunlop logo next to the 957.  I'd think they are 957s made by someone else to Dunlop spec - subcontractor, maybe?

@Roger K I know that Spitbitz have several sets of these @£200 a set. I recently asked them but decided to try and sort my slight rub issues out (5.5J Mags). 

[SpitFire6]

52 minutes ago, Straightsix said:

Update:

I’ve taken a punt and bought a set of 5x13 Dunlop rims for my Vitesse, Listed to suit Triumph 1500/ Herald /Vitesse/dolomite.

I hope to have these by next weekend..

I need to find a set of wheel nuts to suit. I understand these should be 3/8” UNF, presumably other car makers eg mini would be compatible too? Or if anyone has a set to sell please pm me.

TIA Steve

 

Do mini ones fit?

[trigolf]

The standard Spitfire IV or 1500 wheel nuts should still be available from the bigger Triumph specialists. 

[Straightsix]

Thank you trigolf 👍🏻

Btw (I moved my posting from this thread back to my original posting ‘Steel Wheels’ under the Chassis, Suspension & Steering Section. As i inadvertently made a reply posting in wrong Section. Hope that makes sense.)