Winter Heat Required

[Pete Lewis]

what happens if they arrive  in a Mann truck 

Pete

[PeteH]

4 hours ago, Chris A said:

Shouldn't that be Morris People these days??

 

Yup!!. In all shapes and sizes, and Doc Martin Boots.

Pete

[Colin]

Stick & carrot method??

[Peter Truman]

Wouldn’t want to cross the young lady middle centre definitely has a determined look on her face and raised stick!

[Colin]

Probably chastising an MG owner!!

(I have been an MG owner!!🤣🤣)

[dougbgt6]

Yes indeed, Twyford Morris persons are all off the female persuasion, the doddering musical accompanist, are not.

db

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, PeteH said:

 

Yup!!. In all shapes and sizes, and Doc Martin Boots.

Pete

Scary. I sincerely hope that's a minority.

[Pete Lewis]

Dont cross with  Sweaty Betty   

Pete

[Wagger]

33 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Scary. I sincerely hope that's a minority.

Two Ronnies 'Bold Sir John' is the epitamy of Morris Dancers. Saw it first time aired and we all creased up next day at work. Much spluttering at coffee time. Loved those days when work was fun. We played and worked hard. Achieved great things.

Winter warming required indeed.

[PeteH]

They have a facebook Page/

https://www.facebook.com/RavingMaes/?locale=en_GB

Now that IS scary.

Pete

[Colin]

Long long ago, in a universe far far away, Colin Lindsay gave me some advice about the heater matrix-to-cabin foam gasket that went along these lines:-

"The bulkhead foam seal seals round the heater outlet, but that sits into the bulkhead so you'll need to take the heater off to fit a new seal. If you seal the foam to the bulkhead aperture before refitting the heater you can ensure that there are no leaks round it. Just be careful not to tear it when refitting the heater. Any other method, you can't reach the whole way round."

That all sounds very sensible. and of course, because of renovations and what seemed like a reasonably successful engine/heater cleansing session, I have still never (in 35 years) had the heater box off the car.

So, after recently running the car with heater on and noticing that more heat appears to be emanating from one side than the other, I was thinking:- I should look at the exploded diagrams, thinking heat from the heater is as Colin said just instantly percolating into the engine bay, not the cabin (and for the miniscual job of replacing the very original and very crispy gasket). And have. 

What I notice from the diagrams is that in situ, the heater appears to ONLY be connected to the cabin through this foam. IS this correct? IS this 'foam' piping essentially the only conduit into the cabin? IS there not a stub pipe on the rear of the heater onto which the foam gasket would fit and that a stub pipe and the foam gasket would then fit snugly into (through) the cabin entry hole??

I was thinking to merely wrap my cars' crispy foam with either silvered adhesive tape, or some similar product to prevent heater-to-cabin leaks, but am guessing a foam replacement gasket is the 'proper' solution???!!??

For my car, the first two pics are the relevant ones:- but do not show the heater rear as to if there is an output stub onto which the gasket fits - the third, a Spitfire heater, makes it look as if the gasket is merely flush-fit with sealastic or similar to the facer of the heater to the rear of the blower outlet. Seems very basic to me if this is the case . . . ????? Is that what happens at the rear of the Herald heater, too? Just flush mounted foam gasket between heater and cabin bulkhead?? 

Cheers, folks!

Best,

C.

PS Best supplier for new quality foam gasket please!

[johny]

Gasket 24 is the intake from a chamber that sucks from the bulkhead top grills. It just squashes between heater box and chamber skin but if it doesnt seal you draw air from engine bay.... 

Gasket 22 sits under the heater box but around the distribution box inlet which protrudes up through the bulkhead into the heater box. When the nuts are done up from beneath the two are clamped together so ensuring a good seal👍

Edited July 9 by johny

[Gary Flinn]

"So, after recently running the car with heater on and noticing that more heat appears to be emanating from one side than the other, I was thinking:- I should look at the exploded diagrams, thinking heat from the heater is as Colin said just instantly percolating into the engine bay, not the cabin (and for the miniscual job of replacing the very original and very crispy gasket). And have."

From the statement above it sound like your heater matrix is partially blocked.

Have you tried flushing it through with an hosepipe connected both ways, this worked on my old Heater Matrix.

Alternatively, remove the matrix and do the same, you can buy radiator flush treatments too, try one of these if its really gummed up.

Gary   

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Colin said:

For my car, the first two pics are the relevant ones:- but do not show the heater rear as to if there is an output stub onto which the gasket fits - the third, a Spitfire heater, makes it look as if the gasket is merely flush-fit with sealastic or similar to the facer of the heater to the rear of the blower outlet. Seems very basic to me if this is the case . . . ????? Is that what happens at the rear of the Herald heater, too? Just flush mounted foam gasket between heater and cabin bulkhead?? 

I say!! That WAS a long time ago!

Yes, the heater unit has a 'neck' to the rear which the circular seal fits round, and which then goes into the intake on the body to suck air through the grille, thus avoiding any engine fumes.

This won't really help the heat, as it only seals against air from the engine bay and not outside; the main one is the rectangular seal which makes sure air goes into the car distribution box and not out sideways into the engine bay again. That's the important one! Original seals seem to be much firmer than the replacements, but any seal used can be assisted with use of any good modern flexible sealer to help stop air escaping. All of the foam seals inside the heater box do the same, direct heat through the heater matrix rather than let it escape down the sides. I haven't bought one in years but would like to think that the current suppliers are selling something adequate, the correct size and suitably water resistant as cheap foam just holds water.

As Gary says, a good clean flow through the matrix of both air and water helps immensely, so flush the coolant system out in both directions by opening the valve, removing the visible hoses, and push a hose over the ends of each pipe in turn. You'll be amazed at what can come out!

 

 

 

[Colin]

Hi folks - thanks. Just trying to make sense of all that . . . Colin, the rear of heater photo helps a lot. After my original posting, I gave the entire system a good flushing in both directions and more heat was evident afterwards and a lot of red muck came out. So I 'assume' (oh, no!) it's not matrix cloggage. I just wondered about how much heat loss there is through the porous, crispy foam gasket. Ididn't know about foam seals within the matrix box . . . OR, a 'rectangular' seal under the matrix box (did I understand that correctly?) What's that made of - and what's its purpose?!? You have a sealed matrix box with the only box-to-cabin outlet being behind the matrix and fan box. Surely, in situ, said box is only 'sitting' on the bulkhead top?? And is closed? Why would a gasket under it be required?? Sorry to be theoretical about it but it has not been a car part I've ever needed to undo/remove! 

Best, C.

[Colin]

So, clearly I need to see the underside of a heater box (having now seen Colin's rearside shot).

Found this online, showing a cabin entry point that would be under the matrix box and, I think Colin, the location of the mentioned rectangular gasket ?? But why? Surely all generated heat is thrown into the cabin frim the fan outlet? I don't get this aperture - its purpose . . . 

[Gary Flinn]

22 minutes ago, Colin said:

So, clearly I need to see the underside of a heater box (having now seen Colin's rearside shot).

Found this online, showing a cabin entry point that would be under the matrix box and, I think Colin, the location of the mentioned rectangular gasket ?? But why? Surely all generated heat is thrown into the cabin frim the fan outlet? I don't get this aperture - its purpose . . . 

You need to study the Parts sketch you posted above and in particular item 26 the Heat Distribution box.

This either sends all of the heat to the Windscreen, half to the Windscreen and half to the interior or it can be in the blanked off position depending on the position of the Heat Distribution control knob.

The rectangular and circular foam gaskets stop air leaking into the engine bay and also engine fumes getting into the interior presumably.

The Herald/Vitesse heater was never that sophisticated but can keep the cabin warm and the windscreen clear when in good order.

I hope this makes sense

Gary

   

Edited July 9 by Gary Flinn

[Colin]

Hi Gary. I know I'm being dim. Here's Canley's exploded diagram and I'm now only puzzled by one thing:- heat from the box enters the cabin and can be directed to de-misters at window, or into the cabin - or anywhere in-between dependent upon  distributor knob setting. How, then, does/can the fan act upon the demisters (as indeed it does when I switch it on)? From this diagram, it's not inter-connected to the de-mist tubes, or, the distribution box . . . or is it? From this diagram, it looks ss if the fan will only blow hot air from the heater box into the cabin - yet I know this not to be true. Lastly, if I buy new gaskets for both locations, I assume (agggh!) I need to drain the box matrix and undo all the hoses? And will the box come off the bulkhead and away from the cabin without needing to undo any other related items? Cheers All. Best, Colin. 

[Gary Flinn]

The heater box/matrix sits onto item 26 the distribution unit and is held in place with the two nuts items 10.

Yes, you will have to drain the matrix off to remove it and also the hoses and the control valve.

Then the front cover unclips and it should all become clear.

I would advise getting new Rectangular and round foam gaskets or make some, I believe someone used to list them for sale on E-Bay.

Once you start dismantling it will all become clear how things fit together and work, removing the nuts, items 10 is very fiddly if the gearbox tunnel is in place.

Good luck

Gary  

[Colin]

Thanks, Gary.

Regards,

Colin.

[Colin]

Chaps:- after these explanations, would just like some clarification as to how the fan is (has to be/is it?) connected to the distribution box to either blow the heated air into the cabin or to boost de-mist as required . . . Not clear from the exploded pic. Thanks (hopefully last query!!)

Best, Colin. 

[johny]

The fan draws air in from the circular hole through the heat exchanger inside (temperature is controlled by the amount of coolant being allowed to flow here) and down into the distribution box. Inside the latter there is a hinged flap that is moved by the dash control knob so that in one position air is directed to the demisters via the hoses or in the other goes straight out of the bottom of the distribution box. In case youre wondering about the rubber flap just under the circular seal, this allows rain water to drain from the air intake chamber but not air in from the engine bay👍

[Colin Lindsay]

The fan is an INTAKE so sucks air in through the top grille and the large circular hole, through the fan and into the heater box. All the heat blows out of the heater box through the matrix then through the rectangular slot on the bottom which is fitted and sealed through the rectangular slot on the bulkhead. 

The air distribution box inside the car has a flap that directs heat upwards through the two hoses to the screen, or else out sideways through holes in the box, no pipes for the lower bit. It's a very simple one-way system. 

The matrix itself needs to be sealed inside the heater body so that maximum air goes through and therefore obtains maximum heat, so the matrix fits as close to the sides as possible then the remaining small gaps around the sides (NOT top and bottom, obviously!!)  are filled up with very thin foam sheets, which block escaping air and also prevent vibration.

The photos I found on eBay just now show one of the distribution boxes that screws to the underneath of the heater when it's through the bulkhead; the flap simply tilts backward to allow air to the screen, through the circular pipes to the hoses, or forward to point it through the two holes cut in the base. The felt seal round the flap also falls apart but can be replaced easily enough.

  

 

[Colin]

Jonny, Colin:- thanks very much. This is all very helpful. You understand I've not had these items out of the car and so am restricted to exploded diagrams and what I have been able to see with my head stuck under the dash. Even to see the distribution box-to-heater box unit fixings is interesting!🙂 So yes, I understand the venting and dash knob functions and have seen these in operation at the dist box direction flap location, head-under dash! Cleaned all the demisting pipes and repairing the vent flap cable pivot mechanism, as you have sometimes to do! Now, I think I am happy to have understood that fan SUCKS air into the matrix, heated air out from the matrix box to the dist box and vent flap. I suppose I've always assumed the fan BLEW into the cabin and I couldn't understand you good chaps' descriptions - and the diagram - because there seemed no connection between a 'blowing' fan and the dist box!! Such a simple thing to have misunderstood. But the photis, Colin, have been very informative. And thanks, All, for your patience and perseverance with me in this matter!! 

Best, Colin

[Paul H]

The fan is not very effective and can be changed easily to a Nissan Micrav. I’ve done the mod and worthwhile . There are details on the forum how to do the mod

Paul 

found the link 

 

Edited July 10 by Paul H