Gary Flinn Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 I'm considering purchasing a Vitesse that has an engine problem and will need a rebuild The Oil light is on at tick-over and I believe the thrust washers are worn out (Approx. 3/16" of play on the crank when the clutch is depressed) I've rebuilt the engine on my old Vitesse and seem to recall I spent well over £1,000 on parts & machining, but this was 20 years ago. What do you all think it would cost at todays prices, the engine doesn't burn any oil so I may get away with out a rebore and new Pistons? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Am I right in thinking the Club Shop used to Factor, Recon Full/Half Engines at one time? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, PeteH said: Am I right in thinking the Club Shop used to Factor, Recon Full/Half Engines at one time? Pete Pete They did, but I can't find anything now. However, I would want to rebuild the original engine myself, I'm just wondering if anyone's done this recently and how much it costs for all the parts and machining? I'm also worried that the block might be scrap due to the thrust washer issue too😓 Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 38 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said: I'm considering purchasing a Vitesse that has an engine problem and will need a rebuild The Oil light is on at tick-over and I believe the thrust washers are worn out (Approx. 3/16" of play on the crank when the clutch is depressed) I've rebuilt the engine on my old Vitesse and seem to recall I spent well over £1,000 on parts & machining, but this was 20 years ago. What do you all think it would cost at todays prices, the engine doesn't burn any oil so I may get away with out a rebore and new Pistons? Regards Always hard to give a general cost, it depends on who you use for the work and how much they charge. I think - trying to remember accurately - that the man who bored out my Herald engine to +40 charged £30 per cylinder. Pistons and rings - County brand, good enough for a low mileage Herald - about £140 so estimate £220 for Vitesse? Rings about £50, big end and small end bearings about the same, no crank work on mine - we'll see if that was corner cutting and causes any problems on startup - but new thrust washers fitted and the head received replacement valve guides and all valves replaced. I rebuilt it all myself, loads of assembly lube, but still haven't worked up the courage to startup... Bodywork and interior refitting ongoing as less risky... the little ancillaries such as new bolts etc do mount up in cost, but I had salted away a lot of NOS stuff from shows and online purchases. When I 'rebuilt' the MK1 GT6 engine at the most basic level - new oil pump, replaced all the seals and the thrust washers only, plus core plugs and a coat of paint it continued on very well for a few years until a replacement gearbox killed it. You could try thrust washers and a replacement oil pump and see how the rest runs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 41 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said: I'm also worried that the block might be scrap due to the thrust washer issue too😓 Am I right in thinking that ( years ago) some engine specialist could reclaim dropped thrust washer block damage by machining the block crank face and fixing( pins?) an extra thrust washer to the block face? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 53 minutes ago, trigolf said: Am I right in thinking that ( years ago) some engine specialist could reclaim dropped thrust washer block damage by machining the block crank face and fixing( pins?) an extra thrust washer to the block face? I'm sure I've read this too, if that's the case the block should be saveable? I don't think the thrusts have fallen out, but I won't know for sure till the engine is stripped. I've had someone who's in the 2000/2500 Register message me who rebuilds these engines quite regularly and he reckons if it doesn't need a rebore and the crank doesn't need grinding around £1K for all the parts, so that's not too bad. Regards Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 I have a long time ago with a 1300fwd that dropped a thrust and the crank machined the thrust locating lugs off the brg cap we had the crank ground and welded two new lumps on the cap to re support the thrusts this lasted over 10 years of use Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Yes I have had a couple of spit engines repaired after dropped thrusts. If it hasn't gone too far it just requires the bearing cap to be braised as that gets damaged before the block itself. I may be wrong but 3/16 would seem to me excessive wear but not yet dropped. As to cost it all depends on what you find, pretty cheap if it just needs a refresh with new mains big ends and thrusts. But a regrind adds and then a rebore or hone and rings and then cylinder head and cam. so anything from £150 to over £3000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 30 minutes ago, DanMi said: Yes I have had a couple of spit engines repaired after dropped thrusts. If it hasn't gone too far it just requires the bearing cap to be braised as that gets damaged before the block itself. I may be wrong but 3/16 would seem to me excessive wear but not yet dropped. As to cost it all depends on what you find, pretty cheap if it just needs a refresh with new mains big ends and thrusts. But a regrind adds and then a rebore or hone and rings and then cylinder head and cam. so anything from £150 to over £3000 Dan It was my mate who was watching the front pully move, it's hard to be precise but there is definitely a problem with excessive movement and the thrust washers. The weird thing was I would have expected some Knocking/Rattling noise if the oil lights coming on? The engine was as smooth and quiet as anything apart from the noise from the front of the engine when the clutch was depressed. I'm budgeting on worse case I reckon, the car is not without other issues, a new Soft top is needed, there is excessive play in the Steering (Rack or UJ Worn) and the brakes are dangerous, the brake issue may be due to lack of use over the past couple of years and I should be able to resolve without it costing a fortune. The Engine will be the biggest expense/hassle and knowing me if I do buy it, I will start tidying the engine bay and buying all sorts of new bits for it 😁😁😁 All part of the fun of the Classic car hobby I suppose? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 11 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said: Dan It was my mate who was watching the front pully move, it's hard to be precise but there is definitely a problem with excessive movement and the thrust washers. The weird thing was I would have expected some Knocking/Rattling noise if the oil lights coming on? The engine was as smooth and quiet as anything apart from the noise from the front of the engine when the clutch was depressed. The rattling doesnt come from lack of oil but increased clearance between crank and bearing - this of course does happen rapidly if there isnt sufficient lubrication. However the oil light on can just indicate the pressure being produced is less than the switch setting not that theres no oil... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qu1ckn1ck Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 If original matching numbers are not a concern https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114140258231 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 (edited) 26 minutes ago, johny said: The rattling doesnt come from lack of oil but increased clearance between crank and bearing - this of course does happen rapidly if there isnt sufficient lubrication. However the oil light on can just indicate the pressure being produced is less than the switch setting not that theres no oil... Maybe the wear isn't too excessive on the crank then if it's quiet, I suppose it could be a faulty oil pressure gauge (I wish) but the thrust problem and funny noise from the front on depressing the clutch pedal indicate to me its an engine strip😞 At what pressure does the oil warning light come on, from my distant memory 7.5 PSI rings a Bell? Gary Edited January 16 by Gary Flinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Qu1ckn1ck said: If original matching numbers are not a concern https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114140258231 Nice Not strictly correct for a Vitesse though with the recessed bores/domed pistons and pricey to boot, it's been listed a long while. I had a new Crank off TD Fitchett's when I rebuilt my last Vitesse engine, I take it you need to add a camshaft to the short engine though? Edited January 16 by Gary Flinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 manual says two versions of oil pressure switch early 4.5 - 7.5psi and later 3 - 5psi. I think crank bearing surfaces will be ok but bearings and pump worn like my engine was... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 12 minutes ago, johny said: manual says two versions of oil pressure switch early 4.5 - 7.5psi and later 3 - 5psi. I think crank bearing surfaces will be ok but bearings and pump worn like my engine was... Ok thanks Johny Something is badly worn then, I used to get 25 PSI minimum at Tick over with my old Vitesse when hot. I need to do some thinking and make a decision by Friday. Gary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 i`m not a bodywork person but enjoy mucking about with engines. Thrusts could be inspected without having the engine out and the oil light could just be rubbish or tired oil, dodgy sender, PRV, (you said gauge in your post, does it have one?). I think if it`s as you want with paint and body it`s worth a punt. Not at 12K though. BTW I spent north of 6K on a tuned 1500 engine with roller rockers, head/cam work etc a couple of years ago, but that was with the builder doing everything including putting it in the car, rolling road tune up and putting 600 miles on it. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 I get 25psi when hot. Even though the low oil pressure light stayed off low oil pressure was the cause of my crank requiring a regrind. My Vitesse engine with full gas flowed etc etc head and bottom end rebuild cost just over £3k without new pistons and just a rehone but included a billet cam and a huge headache sorting out the carb needles, springs! Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 It is possible to replace the thrusts with the sump off but you would need to do select the correct oversize thrust bearings. It is sometimes tricky to seal everything when re-fitting the sump. It depend how much you want to do to the engine. They do go on for quite a while with moderate wear. Also depends upon your age and fitness. There is nothing worse than doing a grand job and not reaping the benefit. At 76, I would not consider such a task myself. Aged 40 I did a four pot in two weeks even when working full time. That just needed a re-grind, new rings and valves re ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 17 Author Report Share Posted January 17 (edited) I've told the owner I will make a decision by the weekend, as much as I like the car and it's low mileage/low owners I didn't really want one that needed loads of work? Besides the Engine issues there are other things that need sorting and money spending on them:- 1. A new hood is needed 2. The Brakes need a good sorting out (Heavy pull to the right) 3. There are some minor issues with the drivers door Handle push and the window is very stiff to wind up and down. 4. Gearbox and Diff oil leaks 5. The Gear change is vague and needs a re-bush kit fitting (I've got one of these though) 6. I found one minor hole in the rear nearside floor that needs repairing, the rest of the Chassis, body mounting points and floor seems sound. 7. Excessive play in the steering rack or steering UJ or both. I asked the owner if he would M.O.T. test the car for me (It's not been done since 2018) he refused stating if it failed (I'm sure it would on the brakes) it would be on the car's history and he would have to rectify faults before selling it? So, I need to allow some additional money for correcting what ever it fails on, I won't drive a car I own without a current M.O.T. The other issue that bugs me is I ideally wanted a car fitted with Over-drive, this is a standard 4 speed, so If I wanted to convert to Over-drive that's even more expense (£1.5k to £2k I reckon) I've been keeping an eye on prices and they have definitely dropped over the past year or so, some recent sales at Auction house have been around £5k to £8K, although some have been dubiously rebuilt car's, this one is original and straight and I could find no traces of filler on it when I went round all the usual rot spots with a magnet, so it's a bit different from the norm. Regards Gary Edited January 17 by Gary Flinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 58 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said: I've told the owner I will make a decision by the weekend, as much as I like the car and it's low mileage/low owners I didn't really want one that needed loads of work? Besides the Engine issues there are other things that need sorting and money spending on them:- 1. A new hood is needed 2. The Brakes need a good sorting out (Heavy pull to the right) 3. There are some minor issues with the drivers door Handle push and the window is very stiff to wind up and down. 4. Gearbox and Diff oil leaks 5. The Gear change is vague and needs a re-bush kit fitting (I've got one of these though) 6. I found one minor hole in the rear nearside floor that needs repairing, the rest of the Chassis, body mounting points and floor seems sound. 7. Excessive play in the steering rack or steering UJ or both. I asked the owner if he would M.O.T. test the car for me (It's not been done since 2018) he refused stating if it failed (I'm sure it would on the brakes) it would be on the car's history and he would have to rectify faults before selling it? So, I need to allow some additional money for correcting what ever it fails on, I won't drive a car without a current M.O.T. The other issue that bugs me is I ideally wanted a car fitted with Over-drive, this is a standard 4 speed, so If I wanted to convert to Over-drive that's even more expense (£1.5k to £2k I reckon) I've been keeping an eye on prices and they have definitely dropped over the past year or so, some recent sales at Auction house have been around £5k to £8K, although some have been dubiously rebuilt car's, this one original and straight and I could find no traces of filler on it when I went round all the usual rot spots with a magnet, so it's a bit different from the norm. Regards Gary Budget £2k for the overdrive Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 To be fair most of those faults are pretty minor Hood from about £200 plus fitting and don't last forever Brakes. As the car has not been used in a while I would replace all seals and fluids anyway and the issue is probably a seized calliper. Its a Triumph gearbox and diff leaks were fitted by the factory Gear change needs rebushing quite regularly and is pretty straight forward 1 minor hole in the body of a 50+ year old car is pretty good Steering, a new UJ is pretty easy and cheap to fix, steering rack a bit harder. door probably just needs the grease refreshing and a few bits connecting Engine is the big one If the body work is good and the price can be negotiated, those bar the engine wouldn't worry me too much. better to have a few mechanical issues than rust! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham C Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Agree with Dan, £2K for overdrive if you are doing it yourself seems a bit high unless you intend to have the gearbox and overdrive rebuilt by a 3rd party. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Difficult to properly renovate gearboxes yourself these days as many spares arent available and any unit you buy will almost certainly need bits and probably machining so requiring a specialised business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted January 17 Author Report Share Posted January 17 3 hours ago, DanMi said: To be fair most of those faults are pretty minor Hood from about £200 plus fitting and don't last forever Brakes. As the car has not been used in a while I would replace all seals and fluids anyway and the issue is probably a seized calliper. Its a Triumph gearbox and diff leaks were fitted by the factory Gear change needs rebushing quite regularly and is pretty straight forward 1 minor hole in the body of a 50+ year old car is pretty good Steering, a new UJ is pretty easy and cheap to fix, steering rack a bit harder. door probably just needs the grease refreshing and a few bits connecting Engine is the big one If the body work is good and the price can be negotiated, those bar the engine wouldn't worry me too much. better to have a few mechanical issues than rust! I'm trying to weigh up how much it could cost me to correct all the faults I've contacted Don Trimming and been quoted £245 for a new Hood in ICI Vynide as per original, its a further £295 for them to fit it, no doubt new seals and retainers will be needed so add £100 for these too. I could fit it myself, I've done a couple before but getting all the creases out around the rear quarter windows and side's is an acquired art, Don trimming did my last Mohair one and made a great job, so I would probably let the professionals do it. An exchange steering rack is around £235 and the uprated UJ £35 off Canley's (The rack may just need shimming I suppose?) Brakes, who knows but maybe around £250 plus if I end up renewing Calipers, Pipes and hoses Diff and gearbox seals are cheap enough, I've got a re-bush kit for the gearbox so no problems with that the other bits are minor and I can no doubt sort for minimal expense. Like you say the engine will be the big expense, I just hope the thrusts haven't dropped out and the Block is knackered? The Bodywork and paint are in excellent fettle, in fact its probably the best one I've looked at so far I need to make a decision before the weekend🤔. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 40 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said: I need to make a decision before the weekend🤔. Gary Gary, 'It's time to pee or get off the pot ! ' - as my Dad used to say at times of indecision🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now