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additive for E5 petrol - what's in your tank?


hank
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An item in a recent Courier mentioned that ethanol free petrol is now virtually unobtainable now, as BP Ultimate etc now contain 5% ethanol. I have been using Valvemaster Plus in my Vitesse 2 , but this does not combat the ethanol problem.

It looks as though Miller VSPe Power Plus is the answer ,,as this deals with ethanol,   but this is not cheap

What's in your tank?

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Modern cars are designed with fuel systems which are not affected by ethanol, however vehicles built before 2002 will have systems which are not ethanol resistant, and can actually be corroded by the ethanol content.

That’s only going to get worse with the release of E10 fuel, which sees the ethanol content increase from the current 5% to 10% of every gallon you use.

Ethanol also has a tendency to dissolve old deposits in your fuel system, so may also give issues with blocked carb jets and injectors if you haven’t got a fuel filter fitted.

Karl

 

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I was aware the rubber hoses were affected - I’ve changed the ones in the engine bay for resistant ones. 

As for other effects I wasn’t aware of anything else. 

The worry is that isn’t ethonal made from sugar beat or similar - and is affecting the price of the stuff. Bit like bio mass boilers are affecting the price of straw bales - in fact there is a shortage of them and are going for £60 a round bale. It used to be a tenner or less not long ago. 

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What a brilliant solution. Get farmers in the developing world to grow a cash crop (sugar) so we can drive our cars, while locals can't buy food. All so we can claim to reduce out co2 emissions.  

Back to fuel, sainsburys 95..... in all our 4 petrol cars. No issues to report, but all use Goodyear Greenshield ethanol proof hoses. And all get plenty of use. I reckon cars that don't get used much are the ones that will suffer? And therefore may benefit from some form of fuel stabiliser.

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I have the feeling all addatives are made as a must have , when most do nothing or are just not needed 

Theres years of lead memory in the castings  but they sell products like the Valvemaster  which is just a waste of money

Amd make   it a sort of  ' you just got to have this wilmer ' sales blurb.

Use modern spec hoses and just buy decent fuel....use car more

Pete

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9 hours ago, Anglefire said:

The worry is that isn’t ethonal made from sugar beat or similar - and is affecting the price of the stuff. Bit like bio mass boilers are affecting the price of straw bales - in fact there is a shortage of them and are going for £60 a round bale. It used to be a tenner or less not long ago. 

Don't mention biomass boilers, not over here anyway where we're in the middle of the RHI scandal. A few years back people who fitted biomass boilers were receiving a subsidy from the government, which was actually more than the cost of the fuel, so the more fuel you burned, the more money you made. We had farmers burning boilers to heat empty sheds by the dozen and they were raking money in hand over fist. I was approached by representatives back around 2012 and couldn't understand why they would pay you for burning fuel, so knew there was a gimmick even then. It's a bit like paying £1.19 for petrol, and claiming £1.50 back... if only!

Re the petrol and ethanol: if your system is clean I wouldn't worry about deposits blocking components -  a clean system can only be a good thing - but hoses aside, is it still the case that petrol with ethanol will eat through metal fuel tanks?

 

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Classics can deal with E5, provided that some common sense approach is adopted; fuel with E10 (mainland Europe) is a completely different matter and should never be used.

As Clive has flagged, changing to ethanol proof hose is important and companies such as Codan also produce excellent stuff - the spec to use is R9, anything lower could be affected by long term exposure to ethanol in fuel. I think one has to be pragmatic about ethanol and although not the best thing to have in your fuel it is in the majority of petrol supplied at the pumps. 

If your existing fuel hoses have many miles and decades behind them and they are probably rated at R6 then it is likely that ethanol will accelerate their demise; so a change of hose is definitely the way forward.

At home I tend to use Esso 97 and sometimes Tesco Momentum 99 - I have to say that to date I have not experienced any side effects, but my fuel systems on both classics are up to date with R9.

In France I use their 97RON fuel but always add some Millers VSPe - at home I do not.

Burlen fuels also produce ethanol resistant carb floats and this is something that might be worth thinking about at some stage, should you need to access that on your carb(s) and additionally I think they also now produce ethanol resistant diaphragms for CD carbs - to be verified. 

A product that is heavily rated and endorsed by the FBHVC is Ethanolmate supplied by Flexolite; one of my other classic clubs is now a supplier for this item. It is has a proven track record hence endorsed by the FBHVC and is certainly cheaper per se than Millers VSPe.

250ml Ethanolmate treats 250lts of fuel and costs approx. £12 depending who you purchase it from.

I have attached a couple of info sheets re Ethanolmate - apologies sheet 2 is sideways; it is pdf so can be turned around.

Quite often classic car owners will say they have found slivers of hose in their fuel system - predominately in the fuel filter or float. In many cases this is probably due to forcing a tight "dry" rubber hose on to a pipe. Lubricating the hose or placing the end in hot water will make the hose supple and will slide on easier - as it cools it will contract and clamp the pipe; this prevents very thin slithers of rubber being cut by a rough edged pipe.

I noted recently that Esso have introduced "Vapour Free" on their 97 & 95 RON fuels - I presume it is going some way to reduce the effect of vapour lock which classics sometimes suffer; although I doubt classic cars were the drive behind that, useful though I hope !!

Regards.

Richard. 

 

 

Ethanolmate - Info 1.pdf

Ethanolmate - Info 2.pdf

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Thanks to all the op's for the very helpful lcomments..

Matters arising:

I agree the whole ethanol thing seems senseless when the world is short of food but I suppose that's off topic  ( sort of).

Following the Courier item, and the recommendation to use Esso  Super I have found that  the local Esso stations have stopped selling Super- that's North Derbyshire and Staffordshire.

Even if you don't drive your Club car much , there is still ethanol stuff in the tank and fuel system .

The Vits and GT6 s engines are specified to run on 101 Octane ( Oh Happy Days) so need an octane boost. Incidentally, I found a garage in Germany two years ago which sold 100 octane - to my amazement!

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Further matters arising

Re Millers VSPe , I have been told by Millers that they only supply in 250 and 500ml bottles- nothing larger.

The best price is on Ebay - unless you know different!

Could be sold in the Club Shop?

 

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2 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

Spot  on! I used to use additive, but it turned my plugs pink and really there is no need if your head has "memory of lead"

I think some classic car owners get confused regarding additives to deal with ethanol issues AND additives dealing with increased octane to combat unleaded fuel "lead memory" as Doug has flagged quite rightly.

The 2x combatants are completely separate and the only common denominator is the fuel, and what you are looking to achieve or safeguard.

If unleaded fuel had ZERO ethanol, nobody would be putting an additive in their fuel that deals with ethanol issues.

Conversely if, has been correctly stated, you do low mileage and do not thrash your engine or drive at prolonged high speeds on a very regular basis - then the necessity for an additive to deal with valve recession is pretty pointless; as it will take tens of thousands of miles before any notable detrimental effect will occur with valve recession. Triumph cast iron cylinder heads (4 or 6 cylinder) are tough old units and have plenty of memory to rely on !!

The reason Millers additive is expensive is that it deals with ethanol and octane boost in one hit - so you are getting 2x additives for the price of one. I'm a big fan of Millers products, but it really is very much personal choice and peace of mind at the end of the day.

A chap that Clive and I know, drives his Herald sensibly everyday to and from work, plus any other type of required journey - it is his daily driver. As far as I am aware, and I am sure Clive will correct me if otherwise, he does not use additives for any of the above potential issues. Does he experience any issues - NO.

As Pete and others say - decent fuel, decent fuel hose and regular car use are the three criteria that will see you alright day-after-day.

Do I use additives, only a shot of Redex from time to time. Both of my classics have unleaded heads, so the octane boost / lead memory is not an issue and as previously mentioned I only use Millers VSPe when abroad.

Regards.

Richard.

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Were going to Ireland in May this year in our Vitesse - The tinterweb says that Super Unleaded 97 ron is available in Southern Ireland but not everywhere - Planning to use Classic Valvemaster Plus which is a  lead replacement and octane booster - I would be using the product for the Octane Boost - Do these products work or am i wasting money 

NB couldnt find an octane boost only which would be preferable

Paul 

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3 hours ago, hank said:
59 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

who remembers when you could get  4 gallon and four shots at the pumps   ???

{Pete

Over here, you still can get shots at the pumps.... :) Thankfully they nearly all missed.

Crumlin-Rd-shooting-filling-station.jpg.53f420b1c765a8ad200efe8846a4385e.jpg

 

I still miss 2* and 3* petrol..... but the 5* equivalent was available not so long ago, was it a Shell variant of 100 Octane?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I use the Millers VSPe product - used to be quite expensive when you used half a bottle to a tank (well, 25 litres), but the more concentrated version sold now with the bulb on top of the bottle that you squeeze 1ml per litre into is far more cost effective. I use it as an octane boost and anti-ethanol product - not too concerned by the lead replacement element.

Gully

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You can still get high octane fuel - it’s used in racing generally and can be 110   - though generally it’s not as high as that for rallying (which I’m involved is as an organiser on occasion) but more for the consistency. 

Its very expensive as a rule too. 

Lpg is typically 110 octane too. 

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On 13/04/2018 at 1:40 PM, classiclife said:

 

A chap that Clive and I know, drives his Herald sensibly everyday to and from work, plus any other type of required journey - it is his daily driver. As far as I am aware, and I am sure Clive will correct me if otherwise, he does not use additives for any of the above potential issues. Does he experience any issues - NO.

As Pete and others say - decent fuel, decent fuel hose and regular car use are the three criteria that will see you alright day-after-day.

Do I use additives, only a shot of Redex from time to time. Both of my classics have unleaded heads, so the octane boost / lead memory is not an issue and as previously mentioned I only use Millers VSPe when abroad.

Regards.

Richard.

Ah, Pete. He is coming up for 100K this year in his spitfire, that is just his ownership. Always run on straight 30 oil, cut and welded input shaft in the gearbox, but turn the key and off it goes with no issues. It seems to fly in the face of what is usually considered the way to do things. I got to drive it at STAR75 a few years ago and it was a genuinely good car to drive. Yes, and std unleaded no additives.

His herald is at least double that mileage, and again in his ownership. Engine recently had a piston and set of rings, plus he did fit a gifted gearbox a couple of years ago, but that car runs LPG  and a bit std unleaded. A bit of a shed, but again flick the key and off it goes. I like the car, it even has the back section of my old spitfires chassis. A bit of a "triggers broom"

But as long as correct hoses are fitted I am happy with 95 octane stuff, timing set to suit the fuel and all is well. My old 1500 engine running over 10:1 CR really needed higher octane stuff, which it got when available. but that is the only car I really bothered about it

And at Silverstone the Gulf fuel station sells 102 octane. Bit expensive, about £2.50 a litre! 

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Slight drift but can anyone recommend a reputable codan or other branded fuel pipe supplier. It seems to be a very common forum topic out there discussing all of the poor quality counterfeit products on the internet auctions, etc

My gut feel is my hoses are around 32yrs+ based on the available history so possibly due for renewal!

Thanks

Adrian

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Adrian.

If you are looking specifically for Codan, try this company who are spot-on and their pipe price is decent: http://www.eurosport-uk.net/shop/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=codan

The company sell 6mm & 8mm - Codan hose is not cheap BUT you get what you pay for.

I have used AFS previously, that Aidan has flagged, without any issues but I prefer to go the extra bit and get Codan.

Regards.

Richard.

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Sorry to say that the R9 hose I've got from Advanced fluid solutions (two separate lots) has all failed in under a year with severe perishing and failure of the outer layer - though to be fair, no actual leaks.

Currently trying Cohline 2240 from Merlin which is hanging on in there so far but only fitted about 9 months back.

My own Triumphs always get the cheapest fuel I can find at the time.  No problems, except for one tankful of crappy water-contaminated French stuff and noticeably worse economy from E10 which is indeed worth avoiding.  As EFI and unleaded valve seats they are not that typical though.  The boy's Spitfire also gets the cheapest fuel available and that is still on carbs with no unleaded seats.  It runs fine, though we did go to considerable effort to minimise vapourisation possibilities with electric pump at the rear, carb heatshields and fuel lines run right away from heat sources.  This is important as ethanol containing fuel is much more vaporisation-prone.

Nick

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