Looking for a spitfire

[dougbgt6]

Another thing to think about is all the current for the head lights, 10+ amps (?)  goes, unfused, through the dashboard switch. Over the years the contacts tarnish and you get a voltage drop across the switch. Result is dimmed head lights and a hot switch. The switch really shouldn't be carrying this sort of current and no wonder they fail. The answer is to  rewire the head lights to work on relays operated by the switch. But before you get around to that, replace the switch!

Doug

[Anglefire]

Actually, the switches should carry some current - enough to break through any surface "corrosion" (Whetting current) - but to be fair it's not a lot and a relay coil is enough usually. 

[dougbgt6]

Mark,

Whetting/wetting current is a red herring here🐟 (OK a blue herring). The switch is carry too much current, the contacts get damaged and you start to get a voltage drop across the switch.

Anyone who's replaced their switch or installed relays will tell you how much brighter their headlights become. 

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

17 hours ago, chris.eg said:

I seem to have caused a bit of a discussion about rust prevention...

Par for the course here Chris, but it's all in good fun. Thread drift is a risk you take when posting anything, but just sort through it and you'll find some good replies.

Drain your rusty coolant by removing the bottom hose of the radiator, making sure the heater valve is open. Replace the hose, refill, run the car for a few minutes, then cool down and drain again; repeat until the water runs clear. After that, a good blue antifreeze solution will keep things running as they should. As long as the temperature is where it's meant to be and the heater blows hot air, all else is fine.

[chris.eg]

I'll come back to the rest of this later but have a slightly more pressing question. Went to the car today to take fire a drive after leaving the battery on charge overnight and the oil light didn't go out.

What I'm hoping is that in trying to cover the extension lead and battery charger under the bonnet I knocked a wire from the oil pressure sensor so the light is staying on. Is this fairly likely? If so, where is the sensor and what colour are it's wires?

I'm going to try and solve this one on the dark tonight as I will sleep better not worrying that I have a dead Spit...

[NonMember]

Unfortunately, dislodging the wire is more likely to make the oil light never come on.

The sender is on the left side of the engine, below the distributor. There's a single wire to it, which is white/brown.

[Pete Lewis]

Yes if you  locate the switch , disconect it , the light should go out , the switch earths the lamp 

Does the car have a oil pressure gauge fitted ???

These switches do fail and are cheap to replace

And it wont be the fisrt time the  ignition /charge   and oil lamp holders have been swapped  

Next check is take the small terminal wire off the back of the alternator   

Pete

 

 

[chris.eg]

Oddly, I just went back to the car, poked the wire from the sender started the car and the lamp went off as I would expect. I then disconnected the wire to see what would happen and the light stayed off. What would be likely to have caused such a short lived problem? Not sure if I should be concerned or just brush it off as one of those things?

I will test further, but my temp gauge never seems to go above about 1/3. When I've looked through the paperwork I remember mention of an uprated radiator and it does indeed look fairly new, so I guess cooling is probably fairly good, but surely it should still reach about 1/2 on the gauge? Perhaps it's got the wrong thermostat fitted to try and make it run cooler...

[Pete Lewis]

The oil press switch is a simple diaphragm and spring like a cheap bell push  they can be erratic if its failing 

They  should put the light on if less than 6-8 psi

If you fit  gauge the spec is 40 to 60 psi at 2000rpm  

Most end up running hot,  there many reasons for that  but running cold ???   the std uk thermostat is 82c 

Some 1500 may well have a 88c , as later emision controls had leaner hotter engine temperatures

Canley list  both , ive not checked the 1500 triumph parts listing

Pete

[daverclasper]

My water temp gauge never goes over 1/4 when moving in winter (have a bit of card in front of rad to boost this heat in winter).  Idling for long periods will always raise the needle  about double (Vitesse, for more prone  to heat accumulation).

The gauge may not be that accurate?.

I have found a basic test of water temp, is to grip the top hose and it's hot and just bearable then about right. this is subjective, though try on other cars hoses to get an idea.

Thanks Dave   

[dougbgt6]

Chris, 

Here are some coloured Spitfire wiring diagrams, American, but applicable, much easier to read than black and white.

http://triumphspitfire.com/wiring.html

Doug

[Anglefire]

I fitted a full size rad when I replaced my engine last christmas - and a new thermostat. And it sits perfectly on the 1/2 way line - I also replaced the temperature sender - which was longer than the one that came out, and does actually sit in the water flow, rather than being shielded by the housing.

[Adrian]

Great discussion and have been following the spitfire saga with great interest. As always a balanced experience based commentary. So my pennies worth;

cover - I only have experience of a carcoon (indoor). Fantastic, not cheap and a pain to unzip if you want a quick run, but for preserving the, car brilliant. I believe they do an outdoor model. Cost wise I’d say new wings and paint job would be way higher than the carcoon. But equally a basic cover that prevents moisture trapping (breathable) would be good in the short term.

I’m in the D camp, I finished of my refurb with a dynatrol clear wax....BUT I have a pot of waxoyl which can be slapped on to keep things at bay for a while.....not a long term solution. There are expensive paints out there but perhaps the waxoyl can maintain things until your budget improves.

I may be wrong but some of the electrics seem to be possibly damp influenced especially as they seem to be intermittent although wear can be equally intermittent. My fuel and temperature were wrong in my GT6 which initially pointed to the voltage stabiliser. Changed it with the usual skinned knuckles. Turned out I needed a new temp sensor and fuel sender. BUT that is the fun of these cars, not always a text book answer.

At the end of the day the decision is yours as you know your budget but you will always get a good and honest opinion from the chaps on here 

looking forward to the ongoing thriller!

Adrian

[NonMember]

Temperature senders can be highly variable and not all Triumphs "should" sit in the middle - some just naturally sit low or high. Also, at this time of year, if you have the heater on, it's not a valid test. The other day, driving home from work in my modern, the gauge had nicely got to almost half way when I hit a traffic jam. Sitting there idling, the gauge promptly crept down off the bottom of the scale because the heater was taking more heat out than the idling engine was putting in.

[Anglefire]

Most modern gauges are controlled by the ECU and not directly off the sender - my old Disco 3 would sit resolutely in the middle - until it got really hot when it would shoot into the red! Monitoring the live values off the sensor (And reading the specs TBF) then normal was something like 85-95 but it wouldn't move the needle until it was over 100 and 107 being the light (Or similar!)

I've never seen my BMW move off 100 (Mid scale) in the 20odd months I've had it (Once warm obviously!) - whatever the weather or what the heater is doing.

The good old days, its a direct connection so they do move about. 

The reason given by Land Rover is something like, not panicking the owner if the gauge goes up and down! 

[Mat]

9 hours ago, Adrian said:

cover - I only have experience of a carcoon (indoor). Fantastic, not cheap and a pain to unzip if you want a quick run, but for preserving the, car brilliant. I believe they do an outdoor model. Cost wise I’d say new wings and paint job would be way higher than the carcoon. 

Adrian

Yes they do an outdoor one, I have one, The best purchase of my whole restoration!! Like you say, not cheap (about £500 for my GT6) and a pain to disconnect and unzip every time you want to take the car out, but I think it's worth it. (as Adrian said, alot cheaper than most body repairs, that's why I got mine after spending about 6 times that just for a descent paint job)

Also there is absolutely no contact with the car (with all the problems mentioned by other replies) Last winter I left it for about 2 1/2 months in there, in the wind, frost, rain & snow, when I got it out it was absolutely perfect, exactly the way I parked it, not even a spot of rust on the brake discs!!

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED 

But the original poster was looking for a cheap solution.

[Mat]

I think the temp sensors are also hit and miss, I fitted a new one to my GT6 during restoration, worked fine for a couple of months, then the gauge would struggle to move off cold at all, then no more than 1/4 (that was only when stuck in traffic, in a GT6!!!) replaced sensor with another new one, still working fine a year later. Some of the latest "original" new parts, are not what they used to be!! (see my overdrive thread!)

[Pete Lewis]

thee are two transmitters

stabilised gauges  GTR108  slow moving needles    

Early  non stabilised  121997   quick/waggy needles 

 

you cant mix and match them   not all top insulators are different colours depends on maker.

Pete

[chris.eg]

My heater seems fairly ineffective too, which I'm sure is due in part to a couple of broken parts I've found, but the air doesn't seem as warm as I'd expect either. I'm thinking I might drain the coolant, replace (unless they're possible to test in water with a multimeter) the temperature sensor, check the thermostat, flush the heater and then refill.

Is there anything else I should be checking/doing at the same time?

[Pete Lewis]

If youre flushing a good dose of cheap washing soda will shift a lot of crud run it hot for a good while and flush fully 

One area that common to block is the heater valve and the typass tube which runs under the manifold these can be blocked solid , and be rusty   stainless replacements are available.

Gtr108 temp transmitters are quite cheap , and the thermostat must have a jiggle pin valve in the outer rim to let air out when filling

And a late 1500, could be a 88c stat   not a general  82c.

 

Pete

 

 

[dougbgt6]

One of East Berks fitted this, the movement is so much better and smoother than the original. You have to buy it on USA Amazon, they're made in Mexico and quite a common item across a range of USA cars. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2UVQ4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Doug

[chris.eg]

2 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

One of East Berks fitted this, the movement is so much better and smoother than the original

I haven't checked yet if my heater valve is working but will bear that in mind if it isn't. The thing that is definitely not working is the lever at the bottom end of the cable which controls direction. It's attached to the bottom of a box (which I assume contains the heater matrix) in the drivers footwell. If anyone can take one, a picture of how that's supposed to look would be really helpful as I hope I can repair it somehow rather than replacing. The other thing I spotted in that area is a big split in the tube which I think takes air from that box to the defroster on that side.

I'm not sure if the coolness of the air is due to the heater valve, the heater matrix being blocked up or the fact the engine isn't getting hot enough but that seems unlikely as it's certainly not cold!

[Pete Lewis]

The box hoses a crude flap that shuts or deflects air to feet or screen , generally has foam as a seal which degrades

And the cable and its sheath clamp are easily accessible if you wear varifocals and have a dislocated elbows and the ability to work 

Hanging upside down from a sky hook  a cauliflowers ear helps clear the clutch pedal and I think a 2 ba spanner !!!

Duct hoses try a pond pump hose  cheap .

 

Another alternative heater valve is look on  great for ideas....

https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/filterSearch?adv=true&cid=0&mid=0&vid=0&q=heater valve&sid=true&isc=true

Pete

 

[chris.eg]

3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

if you wear varifocals and have a dislocated elbows and the ability to work 

Hanging upside down from a sky hook  a cauliflowers ear helps clear the clutch pedal and I think a 2 ba spanner !!!

It certainly does look a fun place to work... On mine, the attachment for the cable to the end of that lever is broken off. The bit I'm not sure about is that (if I'm remembering correctly) there was another cable coming from somewhere else that looked like it was supposed to be attached too. I think I probably need to go and have another look...

[Pete Lewis]

Theres only two cables one for the hot water valve and one does the air distribution

Pete