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Rear leaf spring


Robert
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Hi, just wondered if anybody could give me a little advise on the rear suspension on my MK1 Vitesse. On a bumpy road with children in the back seats the standard rear wheels rubbed on the inner rear wheel arches. I am currently undertaking a full restoration and at a point where I am rebuilding the chassis. I wondered If I should replace the rear leaf spring as this would have been the cause of the wheels rubbing / terrible camber or if this is normal, I only ask as they are not cheap?

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Vitesse spring should be fine, so may have sagged or been replaced with a "decambered" spring, or other replacement that often seem to be made of poor steel as they can and do sag (a new spring on my car failed in one weekend, OK 700 miles including some dreadful roads on the Scottish border area) but that was refunded by the supplier. So if replacing, choose a quality supplier with a good reputation. Also consider the condition of the shock absorbers. Sadly the cheap black ones are of marginal quality.

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Do you know if I can find any measurements anywhere to find out if it has sagged. Due to shopping restrictions I was not allowed to get a spring out and compare at my local Triumph spares shop! The shock absorbers have been changed to Spax at some point.

I cant think how anybody has a back strong enough to endure 700 miles in a weekend in a Vitesse.

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As to distance, people often set adjustable shocks FAR too hard, if they are adjustable try softening them right off, then just a few clicks harder. (I have forgotten how much adjustment n spax. 20ish? so set to 4-6. But be careful, the adjusters are often seized)

It was in out spitfire, fitted with "rotoflex" rear. But those sorts of distances are not unusual for us, once or sometimes twice a year. This year is looking to be an exception...

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2 hours ago, Robert said:

I cant think how anybody has a back strong enough to endure 700 miles in a weekend in a Vitesse.

It is a few years since I did 2000 miles in a weekend in a Mk1 Vitesse but I can assure you it's a lot less punishing than the same thing in a Rotoflex GT6 😛

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i fitted a swing spring  kit to my vit6   saloon  , awful  10deg neg camber , shockers bottomed on their internal bump rings ,

sounds very much like what you are experiencing

can you get a picture of whats fitted, how many studs in the top of the diff /  how many leafs       etc.   

whats under the cover in the   raised boot floor.???

Pete

 

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Pete,

You found that fitting a 'swing spring kit' caused severely negative camber.      Did you take into account the longer half shafts fitted to the swing spring cars?   Those, with an original spring, wuld lead to excess negative!

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On 01/06/2020 at 22:03, Robert said:

 I wondered If I should replace the rear leaf spring as this would have been the cause of the wheels rubbing / terrible camber or if this is normal, I only ask as they are not cheap?

As many of the guys here are advising, check your own spring first and see what you have fitted - even if it's the correct Vitesse spring it may be worth replacing anyway due to age and wear. My GT6 bottomed out at any bump when I converted to swing spring, using a Spitfire leaf spring, and had to change it to an original late MK3 GT6 swing-spring version. The difference was amazing. I wouldn't have believed that it made so much difference, given that the replacement spring was far thinner, but it really sorted the ride.

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On 02/06/2020 at 08:03, Robert said:

I cant think how anybody has a back strong enough to endure 700 miles in a weekend in a Vitesse

 

700 miles in a weekend......    is nothing 😊

I think my record is 3,200 miles in 5 days.... (2009 10 Countries).  Several other similar continental missions of similar length and duration.  Round Britain - 2000 miles in 48 hours.  An all night scatter rally - 960 miles in 26 hours.....  That's in a Mk2 Vitesse rotoflex.  Standard spring & telescopic dampers.  Ride is a bit abrupt, but the seating position is excellent.

As your comment about the wheels hitting the wheel arches also suggests, I suspect there is something wrong with yours.  Not least because you should be finding the bump stops before the wheel arches unless you have a non-standard wheels/tyres.

Nick

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Vitesse mk2 saloon 
I can’t compete with you guys my longest distance in one day is 280 miles and then on holiday going to Ireland 1600 miles in a fortnight . 
For me the MGF seats made the drive much more comfortable 

Paul 

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I drove from Stranraer to London in one go, seven hours I think... and that was after driving from home to the ferry, about 90 miles in those days... but that was in a Rover.

I drove a 948 coupe from Southend on Sea to Stranraer in one go, too. The M25 was entertaining... :)

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Thank you all for this, I had been trying to find some information on spring dimensions for ages with no success. It is the correct spring I believe and some of the dimensions seem to tally, no lowering block. However when I split the spring to clean it and there is a fair bit of wear on the leafs where they rub on the ends, also when I put the rear suspension back together there is a lot of slop in the bushes etc so I am going to bite the bullet and buy a new one whilst it is still a 10 minute job to change.

Back to my local supplier to complain about the new rear flexible brake pipes being too short and supplying the wrong bushes for the radius arms!

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16 minutes ago, Robert said:

Thank you all for this, I had been trying to find some information on spring dimensions for ages with no success. It is the correct spring I believe and some of the dimensions seem to tally, no lowering block. However when I split the spring to clean it and there is a fair bit of wear on the leafs where they rub on the ends, also when I put the rear suspension back together there is a lot of slop in the bushes etc so I am going to bite the bullet and buy a new one whilst it is still a 10 minute job to change.

Back to my local supplier to complain about the new rear flexible brake pipes being too short and supplying the wrong bushes for the radius arms!

I "strongly" suggest removing the rubber bushes supplied with a new spring and fitting superflex polybushes.

My very short lived spring also had the rubber bushes completely fail....

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4 hours ago, clive said:

I "strongly" suggest removing the rubber bushes supplied with a new spring and fitting superflex polybushes.

My very short lived spring also had the rubber bushes completely fail....

If changing the bushes the rubber ones have a steel outer ring the poly, ones do not.

Regards

Paul

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On 02/06/2020 at 10:57, NonMember said:

It is a few years since I did 2000 miles in a weekend in a Mk1 Vitesse but I can assure you it's a lot less punishing than the same thing in a Rotoflex GT6

Is that because it's Rotoflex, rather than a GT6. Iv'e never heard of a comfort difference (only earlier suspension is crap, Roto, so much better, bla, bla, off those early press reports, that get regurgitated?.

Dave 

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The early suspension (Mk1 Vitesse and, probably, Mk1 GT6) is moderately compliant and provides a reasonable ride. The Rotoflex setup usually seems to be rock hard. Admittedly my sample size is small, certainly on the latter, and it may be that Vitesse Mk2s were softer than GT6s (not quite so sporty, more of a gentleman's car, you know). Also, Vitesses have more seat cushion than GT6s. However, one of the complaints about the Mk1 GT6, in the press who hated it so much, was that the ride was "too soft". Presumably that does mean that the Rotoflex ones are harsher and worse for your back on long journeys.

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8 hours ago, NonMember said:

The early suspension (Mk1 Vitesse and, probably, Mk1 GT6) is moderately compliant and provides a reasonable ride. The Rotoflex setup usually seems to be rock hard. Admittedly my sample size is small, certainly on the latter, and it may be that Vitesse Mk2s were softer than GT6s (not quite so sporty, more of a gentleman's car, you know). Also, Vitesses have more seat cushion than GT6s. However, one of the complaints about the Mk1 GT6, in the press who hated it so much, was that the ride was "too soft". Presumably that does mean that the Rotoflex ones are harsher and worse for your back on long journeys.

Your comparison interests me. 

The specification of the springs is much softer for the rotoflex options, so does the rotoflex geometry affect the rate? I guess the rotoflex does alter shape during suspension travel so would add and also reduce the rate at various points. Whether significant or not is another matter. But I have CV's, and honestly, the spring feels compliant enough. In fact I have swapped/added a couple of extra leafs to firm it up.

Maybe the improved comfort is down to the extra body weight especially at the rear of the car, and also increased wheelbase? Makes the car less "choppy" And yes, vitesse seats are a much better seating position. I had a poorly back before the 10CR 2017. Popped into the physio who did some magic, and was asked if I could rest/stretch etc. I explained I was off for a 5 day European tour in a car. "Make sure your seat is as high as possible". I explained that the seat was almost flat on the floor, not good apparently. So I should use cushions. But I explained the roof is only an inch above my head as it is... Final suggestion. Ibuprofen, and heat wraps. And I reckon I was marked down as an "awkward customer" I survived.

 

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One of the reasons for a harsh ride on both types of Vitesse rear suspension is seized bolts and in particular the trunnions.

If Adjustable dampers are fitted and adjusted with to hard a setting, this can also give a harsh and choppy ride..

The Mk2 Vitesse with the standard Lever Arm Dampers in good condition gives a good ride, probably better than the early Swing Axle suspension? 

Regards

Gary

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There you have it, the new spring (at the back) was made in Sheffield and has a 4” different unsprung height. 
I hope one of my better buys and looks like it will stop the excessive wheel camber!

50B1F203-07CF-409D-A4E2-D5CC822567E2.jpeg

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