Are Replacement Propshafts Balanced?

[JonLow]

I have a late O/D Spit 1500 that had the CV joint/gaiter type propshaft. The gaiter/boot is by now perished and weeping grease, also movement in the splines/UJ. These types of props have not been available for some time, so I did buy a used example stated as very good on Ebay, but that turned out to be not so very good.

So looking at the replacement props they all look identical, generally same picture used. It looks to me there must be only one manufacturer that supplies all the parts suppliers. However, the price varies wildly with the top two big supplies up to almost £100 more than some. I contacted couple of suppliers and was assured that the props are balanced, so I bought one from a good parts supplier. It looks good and feels good, but there is no sign of any balance marks, or weights. So my question is has anyone bought one of these universal props in the last few years and how did they find them? There is no one near me that balances props, so I am trying to get a feel of whether I can expect this prop not to have balancing problems.

 

Thanks, Jon Low.

[Clive]

Jon, it really should be balanced. I had one made and that was fine, I don't remember seeing any e=weights when I fitted it (but with my memory that is no guarantee!)

I took it to Baily Morris in Feltham to be balanced after I changed the UJs, and that had some weights added. The chap there was very knowledgable, and knew all about CVs on Triumph props. 

[Colin Lindsay]

A lack of weights doesn't always point to no balancing; perhaps it just didn't need any. None of the four wheels on my latest Herald have any balance weights despite having all new tyres; they're all fine without. Sadly, the only way to find out is to fit it and see how it drives, or try to have it checked if you ever find anyone reasonably close.

[European Voyager]

I had a prop shaft made for my Stag by a company that specialises in that sort of work . It wasn,t that expensive I want to say about £170 but that was a few years ago . This shaft was balanced by them and it did make a big difference to the car especially on the motor way .

The company I used were Driveline in Grangemouth , They do a lot of the larger plant equipment so perhaps there is someone doing truck van and plant propshafts like that near you .

 

EV

 

[JonLow]

I have had a bad propshaft that vibrated like heck at higher speeds, (not UJ's), admittedly a couple of decades ago. All the balance strips were still attached, nothing lost. I had that balanced by a firm 25 miles away, but they have stopped doing props now.

 

However, just had a definitive confirmation from my supplier:

"I have just spoken to Manufacturer , and apparently they are not balanced . Having said that , i have sold many of their propshafts , and no one has complained about being out of true".

 

Guess I will just give it a go and see. 

 

[Wagger]

Believe me, an unbalanced prop can be unbearable. It made an aeroplane engines  out of sync noise on my 1600 Vitesse at 45 mph and shook the windows at about 100Hz. Poor balance will throw the sliding spline, wear it, and it will get even worse.

Get it balanced. Then you fit it once, not twice.

[Peter Truman]

When we brought the daughters Mk2 Spit 21 years ago we had the fitted prop balanced twice but still had a vibration 3rd time I got a new prop made by Hardy Spicer here no problems since not cheap around 300 quid in your money.

can’t blame Triumph for the original a CKD car and prop shafts made locally!

[wimpus]

Bought a new prop from James Paddock for my spit 1500 with OD.

It was balanced and ok.

[JonLow]

 

I looked closely at the all the usual suppliers, including James Paddock and also Wins International, where I bought mine from. All of them look identical in suppliers pictures, all seem to have longer type grease nipple. Seems a call to the manufacturer had them stating they do not balance them. Maybe they are more accurately assembled these days.

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

looking at the energy transmitted down a tube i cant see any prop manufacturer not balancing a prop to minimise any balance inertia 

as failure can cause catastrophic  damage if it lets go  the original specification would have a dynamic balance tolerance  

but  to imply they are not balanced is pure lunacy 

Pete

[Nick Jones]

Balance checking and rectification (if needed) will be the final stage of manufacture for any propshaft.

Doesn't mean it won’t rumble when fitted, but it shouldn’t!

Nick

[PeteH]

DIY, 1960`s style. several day`s spent crawling under a Ford Consul, adjusting the two large Worm drive clips, a fraction at a time to obtain a "reasonable" drive-line balance.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

and just to add most prop vibrations with a decent prop is down to coupling face and spigot runout from  years of on;s and off's and a bit of gorilla inputs 

Pete

[sulzerman]

I bought a new one supplied from Moss made in India, uj failed and sliding joint had redicullous amount sideways play only covered about 2000 mile's but was out of the 12 month warranty😡

So I had one made by Dave Mac props,all good now😁

[Clive]

15 hours ago, sulzerman said:

I bought a new one supplied from Moss made in India, uj failed and sliding joint had redicullous amount sideways play only covered about 2000 mile's but was out of the 12 month warranty😡

So I had one made by Dave Mac props,all good now😁

You can buy UJs from about £3 upwards. So goodness knows what the manufacture costs/prcess is like. Not a place to economise!

I have seen MG props new for £65, probably the same source as the Moss one? Seems a proper UK made one will now set you back a little over £200, and worth every penny for something that works correctly. Out of balance props are miserable.

[johny]

Trouble is you can pay the 200 pounds but still not be sure youre getting decent UJs as they all look good!

Really its a pity the earlier strap design prop didnt work out for Triumph as UJs and sliding joints are intended for live rear axles where theres a lot of movement between gearbox n diff....

[Peter Truman]

I've had two new prop shafts made locally here by Hardy Spicer both been good, one for Spit and the other a Sprint.

I have an original Triumph Spit Prop which doesn't have a sliding spline but 4 V grooves with around 9 to 10 cylindrical bearings in each groove it each bearing being at right to each other, any experience on their performance and longlevity.

[Clive]

21 minutes ago, johny said:

Trouble is you can pay the 200 pounds but still not be sure youre getting decent UJs as they all look good!

Really its a pity the earlier strap design prop didnt work out for Triumph as UJs and sliding joints are intended for live rear axles where theres a lot of movement between gearbox n diff....

Ask the supplier, they will tell you, and if having one made, you can ask for an upgrade. In general they seem to use decent quality UJs as they supply to all sorts of customers, and they have no desire to lose custom. I know Dave Mac supply some serious motorsport stuff. Talking to them they suggested an upgrade to the next UJ size up, as used on aston martin V12's. Probably overkill on my car. But I have used proper Freelander UJs (ie top spec of the GKN range)

The strap drive used on some heralds is dreadful. And they still have a UJ at each end. 

If you want the best, go for a CV prop (both ends) but sit down before you ask how much!

[johny]

Out of interest do you know what this uses as I like the look of the design?

TRIUMPH TR7 2.0 5 SPEED MANUAL PROP SHAFT | eBay

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, johny said:

Out of interest do you know what this uses as I like the look of the design?

TRIUMPH TR7 2.0 5 SPEED MANUAL PROP SHAFT | eBay

I think those use CV joints rather than UJs; make sure the boot is not perished otherwise all the grot of the day will get in behind. You can buy them new or Robsport have them used at £42.

 

 

[Neil Clark]

Canley tell me that all the later factory Spits used splined prop shafts and that's the only one they offer now.  But other suppliers offer ones that look solid on their drawings.  I understand about the UJ quality variation between cheap and GKN etc.  But what technical reason is / was there for splined versus solid (if any)?

[Clive]

Solid obviously doesn't allow for change of length. And "our" cars do flex a little. It also makes them harder to fit/remove, but not massively so. 

Telescopic is good, it is simpler to fit, allows engine position to be  varied a bit, and allows chassis flex. Obviously more expensive though, but I suspect the UJs will be less stressed.

[johny]

I like the look of these bad boys:

Heavy Duty 'Motor Sport' Propshaft : Canley Classics

[Bfg]

6 hours ago, clive said:

Solid obviously doesn't allow for change of length. And "our" cars do flex a little. It also makes them harder to fit/remove, but not massively so. 

Telescopic is good, it is simpler to fit, allows engine position to be  varied a bit, and allows chassis flex. Obviously more expensive though, but I suspect the UJs will be less stressed.

I might only add that a spline in the drive/prop shaft also allows the engine mounting rubber to better do their job, and allows an all important measure of build / assembly tolerance too. 

Pete

[Neil Clark]

Thank you all - very logical.