Second hand fuel tank condition (how long is a piece of string)?

[daverclasper]

There's one on sale locally very cheap. Quite scruffy with surface rust. Anything to look for, aside from bulging rust seams/obvious thin metal.

The sender is not fitted, so can shine a torch inside.

As far as I know my tanks good, and my fuel filter always very clean (maybe not a "must have" spare I need anyway, though can't have car off the road, as only car and don't want to pay lot's for new?) 

Cheers  

[Pete Lewis]

with the torch a look for rust and scale debris inside  and any serious rust around the drain spout 

and damage to the filler cap bayonet ramps 

Pete

[Clive]

I would check for leaks by putting a pint of petrol in and seeing if it is leaky around the drain spout. That is the usual failure point.

Otherwise visual inspection as per Pete.

 

[Paul H]

Rustbuster sell a kit to seal the tank . 
Paul

[Badwolf]

Frosts also do a kit based on POR15. Gets mixed reviews. Good from those who did it by the instructions. Bad from those who didn't. Various posts on here. I know of a pro restorer who uses it. He stipulates that the inside of the tank must be perfectly dry or the treatment will peel. The biggest complaint I see is that the treatment has peeled...draw your own conclusions.

[Paul H]

18 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Frosts also do a kit based on POR15. Gets mixed reviews. Good from those who did it by the instructions. Bad from those who didn't. Various posts on here. I know of a pro restorer who uses it. He stipulates that the inside of the tank must be perfectly dry or the treatment will peel. The biggest complaint I see is that the treatment has peeled...draw your own conclusions.

I used POR 15 on my tank and it’s fine . The Rustbuster solution is cheaper and the brand seems to have a good reputation 

Paul

[PeteH]

Interesting. I have amongst the "kit of parts" that is my 13/60, what appears to be a (nearly) new fuel tank. I have been mulling over the probability of treating the internal surfaces, in an attempt to prevent or delay the onset of corrosion. In the light of the change to higher and higher levels of Ethanol in fuel how might this affect such treatment?.

Pete

[Badwolf]

This link might help..

https://www.frost.co.uk/por15-basic-big-fuel-car-tank-repair-sealer-kit/

It's quite expensive though.

[daverclasper]

Thanks for all the useful info.

Just wondering about the drain spout area. Is this from any internal  water settling there, or externally from that spongy seal that holds water?

[Clive]

17 minutes ago, daverclasper said:

Thanks for all the useful info.

Just wondering about the drain spout area. Is this from any internal  water settling there, or externally from that spongy seal that holds water?

Spongy seal is the issue. Terrible design, but then again the cars were only meant to last 8-10 years.

30 years ago teh poblem was the same,  many tanks were leaky. I had 2 leaky tanks before finding a good one. A friend steam cleaned his tank at work, cut the drain off and plated it (brazed). Sensible idea. If you have the equipemnt handy

[Pete Lewis]

if you contemplate cutting and weld/braising a patch there's plenty of advice in the forum about how the BANG flattens the tank and de adjusts your hearing and blows your wig off 

how ever you clean a tank its often very very dangerous to apply any flame /heat source 

have to advise any   fuel tank repairs should go to a reputable repairer 

or the result can be heading for life threatening 

Pete  just  being a kill joy 

[KevinR]

14 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

Pete  just  being a kill joy 

Pete, it was Dave that was asking, not Joy 😈

[Pete Lewis]

If i had said kill Dave  it would get deleted   ha 

and Im pretty sure Dave doesnt need a tank anyway  

Dave  keep em coming  the answer is not far away even the ones you dont want  ha 

I have these awful visions of  Dave exiting the  roadway  and going up with a bang and a flash  into orbit with his fuel tank 

Pete

[PeteH]

There are many horror stories about exploding Vessels. As a pressure vessel examiner, I came across them from time to time. Not all had to do with explosive material. Some stick in the mind, the guy who tried to save my dying son was himself killed attempting to cut up and old railway tank wagon. A surveyor examining a Sewage Vessel being severely burned when it "fired". Calor vessels had to be certified "gas free" before we could gain entry, but one still killed a guy, without explosion either. There is a post on here (I think) ref; a fuel tank that exploded?. I even brazed up the seam on a Motorcycle tank. If was FULL of hot water, but now I would not even try it!. ( the ignorance of youth?).

As for Chemically sealing tanks, I still wonder if the presence of Ethanol, would have any effect?

Pete

[Unkel Kunkel]

The dangers surrounding fuel tank repairs can be real, even lethal unless careful precautions are taken.

You might  get away with it.. after all not all  petrol/ air mixtures  explode, as anyone who has ever  struggled get  a petrol car to start and run should know.

-but why risk it?

Always best to keep the odds in your favour..

The fact that puzzles me about fuel tanks rusting is not so much that they rust , it’s the variation - why of two cars  of the same type, same  year and similar mileage,  one is pretty well holed yet the other shows hardly any signs at all.

[PeteH]

6 hours ago, Unkel Kunkel said:

The fact that puzzles me about fuel tanks rusting is not so much that they rust , it’s the variation - why of two cars  of the same type, same  year and similar mileage,  one is pretty well holed yet the other shows hardly any signs at all.

In a word Water, or more accurately moisture. The tanks are often left partially full or near empty, condensation then settles on the exposed surfaces and corrodes OR settles to the base of the tank, being heavier than Petrol, and similarly starts a corrosion cycle. The amount of moisture in the atmosphere is the deciding factor "dry" storage will produce less, cold/damp storage more. Keeping the Tank Full is of help, less space for condensation to form. And of course using the vehicle, changes the atmosphere. "Pin holes" are often formed at the point where the metal has impurities, often from mixes with high "scrap" content in the mix. Japanese cars where notorious in the 70`s for poor quality steel. Japanese steel makers used a high percentage of "scrap" in the mix, similarly with Russian Cars of that era too. There was a big trade in scrap to Russia, from the UK back then. Once those cars hit UK`s salt laden roads it was "good night Vienna". My sons 8 year old Toyota, was like a lace curtain in places. Brit cars where bad enough but these rusted for a pastime.

Pete

[Clive]

33 minutes ago, PeteH said:

 Japanese steel makers used a high percentage of "scrap" in the mix, similarly with Russian Cars of that era too. There was a big trade in scrap to Russia, from the UK back then. Once those cars hit UK`s salt laden roads it was "good night Vienna". My sons 8 year old Toyota, was like a lace curtain in places. Brit cars where bad enough but these rusted for a pastime.

I have heard this sort f thing before, but it is misleading. It implies the scrap is somehow mixed with the fresh steel. But from my understanding, the scrao steel is added to the blast furnace towards the end of the iron extraction process, but any rust will still be "reduced" by the carbon monoxide. 

I reckon the Russian problem was more to do with shonky quality control of the bleast furnace. Remember that process starts with contaminated rust (iron ore) so get it wrong, and you will end up with some remaining. 

As to the Japenese, even today grey car imports need care. Down to a lack of rustproofing as the Japenese don't use salt on their roads, so their cars don't go rusty. Stick one on the UK roads, and yes, it will rust. Probably no faster than a 60's UK made car. I have heard from people who owned Heralds from new. Rust repairs and outriggers within the first few years of ownership were common, and few survived 10 years. Heralds are lucky, as outrigger replacement is pretty simple, but monocoques of the era got uneconomical very fast. The wise poeple paid to have their cars undersealed when new (not cheap) or used old engine oil etc to keep the tinworm at bay.

The reason modern cars don't rust seems to be down to using cavity waxes at the factory, along with tighter quality control and better sealing. The better accidet repair garages are fussy about making sure cavity waxes are applied after repairs, but a lot of places don't bother (it costs them time and a bit of cash) which is why a repaired area will often rust out within a few years. 

[PeteH]

Your right Clive. As to how the steel is made, allegedly the issue, whilst having a measure of lack of QC, was also down to the percentage of scrap used in the initial run said to be substantially higher than (say) UK steels. As far as I am aware all Japanese Ore, is imported, We carried hundred thousand tonne a time, and/or the limestone from Australia to Japan in the 70`s when I was C/E on a Bulk/Ore carrier, as well as Scrap. A lot a galvanized/treated steel is used in modern cars as the steels are thinner, in an effort to reduce mass. (and one suspects, costs). I had more to do with "boiler" plate than automotive steels. Witnessing testing at the steelworks prior to fabrication and welding. Interesting subject about which I wish I knew more.

Pete

[Peter Truman]

If you remember Belgium steel was poor quality in the60’s I remember stories of Cortina’s wings rusting in 6 months. In the late 60’s I was doing a chem plant in STH Korea and the rebar steel was terrible when you bent it it just layered, had to ship replacement deformed bar from Aus and the UK to complete the job.

In my early working life I built iron and steel furnaces and rolling mills all over the world.

 

[Clive]

39 minutes ago, PeteH said:

Your right Clive. As to how the steel is made, allegedly the issue, whilst having a measure of lack of QC, was also down to the percentage of scrap used in the initial run said to be substantially higher than (say) UK steels. As far as I am aware all Japanese Ore, is imported, We carried hundred thousand tonne a time, and/or the limestone from Australia to Japan in the 70`s when I was C/E on a Bulk/Ore carrier, as well as Scrap. A lot a galvanized/treated steel is used in modern cars as the steels are thinner, in an effort to reduce mass. (and one suspects, costs). I had more to do with "boiler" plate than automotive steels. Witnessing testing at the steelworks prior to fabrication and welding. Interesting subject about which I wish I knew more.

Pete

Yes, the japenese cars are a bit thinner steel than most others, but still incredibly strong. It must be a different steel alloy to most.

But another thing. Get a bit of rusty triumph, and fit a new repair or even whole panel. put the old bit of triumph next to an offcut of the new panel, and leave it outside. I can guarantee, sfater a couple of years, the original rusty steel will be a tad worse, but not much. The new bit will probably have gone. A friend did this a few years ago. I wonder if new panels are made from a softer/more easily shaped steels which are just not as corrosion resistant? Seems a fair conclusion. 

My knowledge of blast furnaces etc is "academic" as in I taught the stuff as part of a science syllabus. Probably covered it back when I was at uni at some point, but that was a looooong time ago. 

[Paul Amey]

I'm currently in the process of cleaning my Vitesse fuel tank out with white vinegar, (a tip given to me by a local classic bike restorer).  So, I left the tank in the shed standing on a bund overnight in the upright position (as in it's fitted position), with 4.5 litres of white vinegar in it. This morning I observed the effect, it has removed all the fuel residue that was submerged below the fluid level and eaten into some rust patches. I have now put the tank on  one side to process that are next. I will need to get some more white vinegar to submerge the centre baffle . But B&M are out of stock just now and my ebay order has gone missing.

[PeteH]

White vinegar. My go to for any sort of descaling these days, buy it in 2kg resealable packs off tinernet as crystals and mix it to my needs. The last job was cleaning up the copper standard light fitting, old fashioned gas light style for the Garden. +several coats of lacquer still looks shiny.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

well it wont smell like castrol R   but  could be a following of  fish and chips   from the exhaust 

ive used vinegar  added  in the screen wash , nice clear screen but every squirt has a craving for F & C 

Pete

 

[Colin Lindsay]

4 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

well it wont smell like castrol R   but  could be a following of  fish and chips   from the exhaust 

ive used vinegar  added  in the screen wash , nice clear screen but every squirt has a craving for F & C 

Pete

Just like driving behind one of those vehicles that uses bio-diesel...

Locally to me we have the Tayto Crisp Factory, so if you're driving through Tandragee town when they're frying, the entire place smells of chips. Lovely!

[Pete Lewis]

when we had a truck factory on land used to park sales they built a coffee roasting plant  

the air was solid coffee , we all got hooked on it 

Pete