Second hand fuel tank condition (how long is a piece of string)?

[NonMember]

40 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

they built a coffee roasting plant  

the air was solid coffee , we all got hooked on it

It must have been a bit different to the General Foods factory in Banbury. The smell of Maxwell House being made was enough to put anyone off coffee for life. Mind you, it wasn't the worst smell they made there.

[Peter Truman]

One of the major metro train lines here in Melb pass’s the Rosella food manufacturers where they make tomato sauce or ketchup the smell of cooking brewing tomatoes is very very strong made me a HP man for life!

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

when we had a truck factory on land used to park sales they built a coffee roasting plant  

the air was solid coffee , we all got hooked on it 

Pete

A Bit like Banbury then. Used to be going down M40 you got a huge caffeine lift around J11!.

Pete

Edit. Looks like N-M beat me to it. Going over from the Humber Bridge to the M180. You pass Piper Crisps. The aroma follows you!.

P

[Pete Lewis]

drifting to even worse  the back road to Wheathampstead  passes the sewage  from Luton  works  always known as the scent factory 

before the days of Dr Beaching the train stopped for Luton Hoo  was right opposite     Phew   keep the windows closed for sure 

not a pong to get hooked on

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Watergate Street in Chester stank so heavily of sewage last year when I was there it's forever referred to as 'Stinky Street'.

[Chris A]

I grew up in Chesterfield where there was a Trebor factory, the air close to it was so treakly sweet you could cut it with a knife.

Close to where I lived there was a Mother's Pride bakery, that was a more appetising smell.

[mark powell]

Santa Pod raceway back in the day was, (depending on direction) downwind of a maggot factory. So, what with the very basic toilet facilities, the smell of burnt and unburnt nitro fuel and burnt rubber, ground shaking top fuel and funny cars, a weekend visit was an overall assault on the senses. 

[Paul Amey]

My Vitesse tank is currently half full of white vinegar which is gradually going brown. So, something is happening inside. Then a mate has got some Bilt Hamber Atom Mac, which apparently you dilute with presumably water (after washing the vinegar out )and that forms a protective seal until you fill with fuel.

[Colin Lindsay]

What would happen if you simply descaled the inside, chain / nuts bolts / whatever method then poured in something like Jenolite fluid and swirled that around?

[daverclasper]

I've had great results with Acetic acid powder in wall paper paste as a much cheaper and more effective alt to Jenonite, etc, gells (be aware the powder, when added seems to make the paste more runny). Can also be mixed with water for a more dipping (also in the tank?) type process, though not tried myself (see Trevs blog on U tube for info).

If a tank is de-rusted, then, assume the bare steel is the same as when it left the factory, Ie, no other coating applied?.

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

not all but many manufactures used a coated sheet steel to make fuel tanks  

so there are plain or coated  from all the triumph troubles  i would guess all plain steel   no fancy anything 

Pete

[PeteH]

Didn`t I read somewhere, Ed China attached one to a Cement mixer, and filled the tank with gravel?.  I used to end the day chucking a couple or 3 broken bricks into the mixer to clean it during the self build. it worked for that?

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Don't forget this bit, too. After all my descaling, cleaning, derusting, treating and painting, the first time I tried to fill my lovely almost new tank, it leaked from an unseen pinhole halfway up the neck. Gosh durnit. I hope it's brazeable.

 

 

[Peter Truman]

Colin it appears there's a detour at every corner! lucky there's no roundabouts 

[JohnD]

For a similar thread, in Another Place, I thought of using electrolysis.   If the sacrificial electrode were inside a perforated  plastic tube then there would be no danger of short-circuiting it on the inside of the tank or the neck.

Never needed to try this - I'd be grateful if someone did try it!

[Wagger]

7 minutes ago, JohnD said:

For a similar thread, in Another Place, I thought of using electrolysis.   If the sacrificial electrode were inside a perforated  plastic tube then there would be no danger of short-circuiting it on the inside of the tank or the neck.

Never needed to try this - I'd be grateful if someone did try it!

Try this on a small can first. Put some liquid copper sulphate in it. Dangle a copper wire into it connected to the +ve terminal of a battery and connect the -ve terminal to the can. It should copper plate the can below the liquid level. Dunno how good copper is with petrol and the tank would need to be very clean and full of copper sulphate solution unless you do one side at a time.

The repair shop guy does silver plate with just a liquid. Probably expensive. The best chrome plating is copper then nickel then chrome.

Old two stroke tanks that used petroil at 2% did not rust. Makes a smoky exhaust though. Would shots of Redex do anything.

Brainstorm over!

 

[Unkel Kunkel]

 

11 hours ago, Wagger said:

 

Old two stroke tanks that used petroil at 2% did not rust. Makes a smoky exhaust though. Would shots of Redex do anything.

Brainstorm over!

 

I have no experience regarding steel 2 stroke tanks, but I can say steel tanks that hold only oil certainly do rust - even terne plated ones.

During the last few years  I have cleaned / repaired  the tanks of several very old vehicles that have separate oil and petrol tanks.

The bottom of the petrol tanks were all rusty, but the bottom of the oil tanks were all rusty to a varying degree.

In one case the oil tank was  considerably more rusty  than the petrol tank though it was known to only have contained engine oil for 90 + years.

I think condensation water falls to the bottom of the tank -whether it contains petrol or oil.

 

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, Unkel Kunkel said:

I think condensation water falls to the bottom of the tank -whether it contains petrol or oil.

Any Moisture which condenses will eventually finish UNDER the fuel/lubricant above it. Keeping the tank as full as possible denies the moisture cold surface on which to condense. In Major Marine practice, easpecially those using HFO, there is always a "settling" tank, who`s purpose is to allow the water (often Salt) to settle to the bottom where is is run off into the "Waste" tanks. It is then heated and goes through centrifuges to clean it into the daily use tank before being further heated and used.

Pete

[Chris A]

13 minutes ago, PeteH said:

Any Moisture which condenses will eventually finish UNDER the fuel/lubricant above it

So, if I understand this correctly (and it is far from certain my fuddled brain has) in my 13/60 there could/will be a layer of water at the bottom of the tank which, if only a thin layer, just sit there until I need to turn the tank lever to 'reserve' and run the car virtually dry when it could get sucked into the system and cause problems.

Over many years the level of water could even rise to the level where it is above the pick up pipe even in the 'normal' position?

My brain hurts! Time for tea!

[JohnD]

Density of engine oil is 0.8-9, of petrol less, when water is 1, so water is always heavier by volume and oil/ petrol will float on top.

John

 

[Unkel Kunkel]

The pick up pipe, or the outlet in a gravity feed system, is always a bit higher than the very lowest part  of the tank.

There is going to be some debris and a bit of water below that point.

That works pretty well - often for  decades.

Water in tanks seems to be largely  from condensation from the top and sides of partially filled tanks.

This has relevance   for old cars that aren’t in frequent use or stored.

It is something that becomes more of a problem as these tanks continue to age.

It is a problem that may be exacerbated by ethanol- added fuel.

There is also a further factor regarding infrequent use / storage.

The phase separation of water / petrol is influenced by temperature and ethanol - water/ petrol phase separation, so more  “ comes out “ to settle in the tank in lower temps.

From this , it would seem best  either to  keep the tank  well- filled if you’re not using it much - or  for  lengthy periods of storage - drain it, but drain it completely.

There are issues to consider with both these approaches.

I wonder if we will see “tank pumping - out kits” appearing on the classic car market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris A]

46 minutes ago, Unkel Kunkel said:

I wonder if we will see “tank pumping - out kits” appearing on the classic car market.

 

Already available as generic kits, all it needs is for some bright spark ( bad choice of phrase) to market them as specific kits to preserve the tank on classic cars and double the prices. 😉

 

[Colin Lindsay]

All you need is a short length of plastic syphon, and make sure it goes to the deepest part of the tank.

All this might have an interesting effect on Heralds with the reserve tap, where, when you run out of fuel, you move the lever and this directs the pickup to an even deeper part of the tank... thereby ensuring that you REALLY break down...

[Chris A]

14 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

All this might have an interesting effect on Heralds with the reserve tap, where, when you run out of fuel, you move the lever and this directs the pickup to an even deeper part of the tank... thereby ensuring that you REALLY break down...

All the more reason for filling up before you get that low.

[Peter Truman]

In the mid 80’s we had a XJ6 Series3 During a service The fuel filter was changed a few months later during summer it started to vapour lock my service chap removed the filter again and if was dirty and partially restricted so I removed the drain plug in the bottom of each tank and was very surprised at the amount of silt and grit that came out, the car at the time would have only been 4 years old as we’d brought it at only 2 year old

Don’t know if it was due to the fillers being in the top of the rear deck and the caps were below the surface of the deck but from then on I flushed them every couple of years  until the car written off by a semi trailer.

in the classics I use an additive that keeps the petrol fresh and controls the moisture it cost enough so I hope it works!!