Will Orum Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 While servicing the head, I noticed that there is only one spring per valve. All manufacturer literature I've read states it should be dual spring. I can't see any reason it would be like this unless the head is a US import? A few details about the head and engine: Engine # - FMHE Stamped head # - 515973 Other head # - 8 12 70, 307871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 There were always alternatives, I believe. My 1600 Vitesse book stated dual springs. Instead of two thin section ones, it had single thicker springs. It did break one, so I would have preferred doubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 there was a Jaguar single spring used by some owners as replacement for the twin set up and they were very much cheaper cant remember just which jag model Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 I thought the 1500 was single spring from the factory. Mk1 Vitesse was dual, but not any of the four cylinder ones, according to the factory WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted March 20, 2022 Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 A 1500 MG Midget engine I have has twin springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Orum Posted March 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, NonMember said: I thought the 1500 was single spring from the factory. Mk1 Vitesse was dual, but not any of the four cylinder ones, according to the factory WSM According to the red 1500 workshop manual, or possibly the Haynes manual (Really can't remember and I don't have them to hand right now), all EU/UK spec 1500s and late 1300s should've been fitted with dual springs from factory. I'm wondering if, as Pete said, my engine has been fitted with some cheaper aftermarket springs. I had a look through the purchase logs for the car and it didn't show any springs being purchased though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 just a browse on canley's and they show single spring with an inner as "late" so there was a change in the evolution Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 9 hours ago, Will Orum said: I'm wondering if, as Pete said, my engine has been fitted with some cheaper aftermarket springs. I had a look through the purchase logs for the car and it didn't show any springs being purchased though... Or possibly fitted with single uprated or heavier springs? There have been a number of NOS sets for sale over the years, they do come up for sale a lot, so maybe the two have replaced for stronger single springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 Newman Cams sell single springs for their PH1-3 cams rated at 160lbs and doubles for their race cam rated at 200lbs. I would go with their recommendation and buy the single spring. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Will Orum said: According to the red 1500 workshop manual, or possibly the Haynes manual (Really can't remember and I don't have them to hand right now), all EU/UK spec 1500s and late 1300s should've been fitted with dual springs from factory. I'm wondering if, as Pete said, my engine has been fitted with some cheaper aftermarket springs. I had a look through the purchase logs for the car and it didn't show any springs being purchased though... I can assure you that my 1963 1600 Vitesse had single valve springs when built. I de coked it at 70,000 miles, replaced a burned out valve and the Triumph dealer showed me the alternatives on the micro film slides. In the maintenance schedule, there was a suggestion that the head should be removed and valves ground in at 25,000 miles. It is a long time ago and I no longer have that manual. In any 'Parts list' for any product that I have had any involvement with, there always had to be a 'Second source'. Companies have alway been merging, changing names or going bust. This complicated matters when the 'Second source' merged with the first choice. It is a minefield now. Finding an engine not stripped since the 1960's will be nigh on impossible. Fitting double springs reduces the risk of dropping a valve, but it won't be as obvious audibly as breaking a single spring set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmh Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 17 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: there was a Jaguar single spring used by some owners as replacement for the twin set up and they were very much cheaper cant remember just which jag model Pete EBC4871 Valve spring - but believe they are no longer available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Wagger said: 1600 Vitesse had single valve springs when built thats Odd the orig 1600/ mk1 2ltr parts manual shows 121251 outer and 102564 inner mine was a 64 1600 and that had double springs and 1300 spit had single springs up to FH25000 and double from FH25001E being 157476 inner 157229 outer plus base locator 157510 top collet ring 111870 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: thats Odd the orig 1600/ mk1 2ltr parts manual shows 121251 outer and 102564 inner mine was a 64 1600 and that had double springs and 1300 spit had single springs up to FH25000 and double from FH25001E being 157476 inner 157229 outer plus base locator 157510 top collet ring 111870 Pete Yes Pete, I remember being mystified at the time as all of the books stated double springs. It was 1973. I owned the car 1972 to 1976 and it had 72k on the clock when I bought it, therefore cannot state for certain that it had not been stripped at some time previously. It broke a spring late on and I bought just one single spring instead of a set of doubles as I was selling the car. It only took the partsman two minutes to find it. So was an 'On the shelf' item. I guess that the BLMC harmonisation was responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 It was back in the 1980`s. But I had the head off SWMBO`s Vitesse, and I am convinced it had "Twin" (inner and outer) valve springs?. Oct 1968 (2000). I still have the unused bits of the "Payen" gasket set in the garage, including a "new" Cover seal and the smaller paper joints. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 hours ago, PeteH said: It was back in the 1980`s. But I had the head off SWMBO`s Vitesse, and I am convinced it had "Twin" (inner and outer) valve springs?. Oct 1968 (2000). I still have the unused bits of the "Payen" gasket set in the garage, including a "new" Cover seal and the smaller paper joints. Pete I had a 1962 Vitesse that did have dual valve springs. I bought it as spares for the 1963 one that had single ones. Bonnet had ramps instead of rubber stops. Swapped the wheels, gearbox and overdrive over, then sold the 1962 one as it needed a load of work. It had twin semi downdraft SU's fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky_Spit Posted March 22, 2022 Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 On 21/03/2022 at 12:04, jmh said: EBC4871 Valve spring - but believe they are no longer available. I have those in my "spare" 1500 engine. They were stupidly cheap from a Jaguar main dealer about 10 years ago, something like £1.50 each and marked with a pale green splodge of paint on one of the spring's coils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmh Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 19 hours ago, Sparky_Spit said: I have those in my "spare" 1500 engine. They were stupidly cheap from a Jaguar main dealer about 10 years ago, something like £1.50 each and marked with a pale green splodge of paint on one of the spring's coils. Did the same - still have a few spares 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 19 hours ago, Sparky_Spit said: I have those in my "spare" 1500 engine. They were stupidly cheap from a Jaguar main dealer about 10 years ago, something like £1.50 each and marked with a pale green splodge of paint on one of the spring's coils. They dropped to about 30p each before they finally sold out. I bought a large quantity from the local Jaguar Main Stealer and they were stunned by how cheap they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 they are still about but not at 30p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMcP Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 That cylinder head number (stamped) suggests Spitfire MK3, early MK4 or 1300TC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul fosh Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 had a early 1600 vitesse and latter both single spring . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 On 20/03/2022 at 18:44, Pete Lewis said: there was a Jaguar single spring used by some owners as replacement for the twin set up and they were very much cheaper XJ6 i believe, i have them on my 2.5 Vitesse. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 On 21/03/2022 at 11:50, Wagger said: Fitting double springs reduces the risk of dropping a valve, but it won't be as obvious audibly as breaking a single spring set up. Is that the only reason for having doubles or is it one of these swings and roundabout things (which might explain why Triumph seem to have oscillated between single and doubles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 I thought it was to up the rev limit before valve bounce occurs, not that any 1500 would reach that without grenading the bottom end. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 1 minute ago, johny said: Is that the only reason for having doubles or is it one of these swings and roundabout things (which might explain why Triumph seem to have oscillated between single and doubles? Main reason would have been cost. (Cost reduction engineering) Luckily, a broken single spring did not break a valve when it happened to me. The valves move in the same direction as the piston on these engines. Double springs rarely break at the same time and do ensure that you can run albeit at lower RPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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