Dick Twitchen Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 That is still the routine and progress is periodically checked, usually by the Master At Arms, to ensure a full set is blossoming; if it is not forthcoming then it is back to shaving. 'Fancy' trimming is not permitted however it should be neatly trimmed so no ZZ Top lookalikes. That approach also ensures that an adequate seal is made if wearing a gas respirator etc. In Prince Philip's time in the Service officers rarely had beards, with the exception of submariners, and certainly not Commanders in command or officers in the Royal Yacht! Not sure if it still the case but I had to formally write to my Captain to request permission to get married to ....; this was to avoid the unforeseen outcome of a run ashore with an inappropriate lady! Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 I have only one personal memory of her Majesty, during the 50th jubilee, she visted Beverly, I was not present, but My wife took our grandaughter, who was amazed when the Queen actually came over and spoke to her and several other children grouped together. It is a sad time for this country, and a sad time for her family. It is never easy to see ones`s parents go. even one of such an age. Bless You Ma`am, The country will miss you. An important Light has been turned out. On a lighter note. I knew about the "permission to shave/stop shaving. But did wonder if that had been dropped in recent times?. It was also a requirement of the RNVR, Just as well it was not a Merchant Navy rule though.!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 As I expected last evenings regional news, France 3 Normandie, spent the whole half hour dedicated to her. The presenter was at the British war cemetery at Bayeux. It was interesting to see from a non British stand point how she was loved & respected. She had a close relationship with Normandy, of course there were several visits for D Day ceremonies plus a good number of less formal and virtually private visits relating to her passion for horses. Visits to several 'haras' and she was clearly very knowledgeable all all things to do with horses. The previous evening during a special programme about her an ex ambassador said that when he first took up his post one of the first things he was told was not to speak to her in English. On the regional programme last night that point came up again and this time the person explained that speaking to her in English would imply that her French wasn't up to it, which of course isn't true she had an excellent command of French. I understand her feelings on the subject as often when visiting tourist areas here where there are high numbers of English speaking tourists hotel staff tend to want to speak to us in English. We politely inform them that we live in France and have done for nearly 30 years, do actually have French nationality and prefer to speak French ( usually because their English accent is so bad). Of course there is also a family tie between the late queen and Normandie, she is a descendant on the female side of a certain Guillaume and in fact one of her many titles is 'Duc de Normandie'. Yes Duc not Duchesse. It was mentioned that on one occasion someone did address her as Duchesse de Normandie and she politely and with humour put them right. My neighbour has dropped yesterday's copy of Ouest France in my letter box as it has 4 or 5 pages about her. We are going to keep our Union flag at half mast for as long as they are in Britain rather than as they will be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Chris A said: As I expected last evenings regional news, France 3 Normandie, spent the whole half hour dedicated to her. The presenter was at the British war cemetery at Bayeux. It was interesting to see from a non British stand point how she was loved & respected. Some of the tributes have been amazing; in particular the Canadian Prime Minister was especially moving. Of course, this country being what it is, we had 'Celebration Cavalcades' in certain areas of Northern Ireland last night, and they weren't celebrating her memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 Descended from William the Conqueror? Yes, but also from Harald Godwinsson, who lost at Hastings, and almost everyone else who lived in Britain thousand years ago. As everyone has two parents, and a generation is about twenty years, she has 2^20 ancestors from that time. That's 1,048,567 people, half of the entire population of England in 1066. John PS it is indeed a mark of her universal respect when a newspaper in republican France devotes so much to her death. But here in the UK, the Guardian, whose editorial policy was republican, gave us nineteen pages yesterday, twenty five today AND a special FORTY page biographical supplement, for its royalist readers to pull out and keep. If the Grauniad does that I shudder to think what the Daily Mail has done! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, JohnD said: I shudder to think what the Daily Mail has done! whatever it did yesterday, along with other British newspapers, a specialist shop in Paris sold all their copies in less than 30 minutes yesterday, plus got rid of all their left over stock of commemorative mugs, plates etc. Not just from the most recent jubilee either, everything they had! No doubt factories in China are going full speed with tribute stuff for her majesty and celebration stuff for the new king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 2 hours ago, JohnD said: Descended from William the Conqueror? Yes, but also from Harald Godwinsson, who lost at Hastings, and almost everyone else who lived in Britain thousand years ago. As everyone has two parents, and a generation is about twenty years, she has 2^20 ancestors from that time. That's 1,048,567 people, half of the entire population of England in 1066. The person was talking about direct descendant, I can't recall if he said 25 or 28 levels between them. Another nice anecdote, when the queen went to Deauville the council convened a special council meeting to pass a temporary law to allow her to go along where the famous beach huts are in her Rolls. It is normally pedestrians only. We once went to Ouistreham for the ferry a few days before or after a visit and the speed bumps had all been removed on the route . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 Direct descendant? When any descent is through Scots kings (James 1, 6th of Scotland) and Dutch princes (William 3, Prince of Orange), when Queen Victoria's father was the fourth son of George 3, when none of his elder brothers had sons (and the Prince Regent, no wife!) so she succeeded, Her Majesty's own father would never have been King, if it were not for his brother Edward 7's infatuation with an American divorcee and consequent abdication. Forget the coils of Salic Law! HM's descent could not be less direct or more convoluted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 39 minutes ago, JohnD said: Forget the coils of Salic Law! HM's descent could not be less direct or more convoluted! From familypedia This list shows the most senior line of direct royal lineal descent to the current monarch of the United Kingdom from William the Conqueror of England. Each person on the list is the son or daughter of the person above him or her on the list. There are many other more junior lines of descent of the family (some of which are shorter), but the crown, at least in theory, descends only through the most senior line. Due to extinct lines, large parts of entire royal houses (Lancaster, Tudor, Stuart) are bypassed in the current most senior line. The numbers can be used to calculate the number of generations between two individuals on this list, but they may have shorter links (notably that of George III to George VI through the latter's mother). Contents 1The direct royal line from William the Conqueror to Elizabeth II 1.1The most royal line, not the shortest 1.2Shorter line of descent 2Monarchs not in the direct royal line, and why 3Monarchs of each generation 4Genealogical relationships to Elizabeth II 5Family tree 6Descent of Elizabeth II from other royal lines 6.1The descent from the Saxon kings 6.1.1The descent through the West Saxon royal line 6.1.2Alternative descent from Alfred the Great 6.1.3The descent through Harold Godwinson (Harold II of England) 6.2The descent from the Kings of Scotland 6.3The Merovingian descent through Charlemagne 7External links The direct royal line from William the Conqueror to Elizabeth II The most royal line, not the shortest William I, King of England (1027-1087) Henry I, King of England (1068-1135) Matilda of Normandy (1102-1167) Henry II, King of England (1133-1189) John, King of England (1167-1216) Henry III, King of England (1207-1272) Edward I, King of England (1239-1307) Edward II, King of England (1284-1327) Edward III, King of England (1312-1377) Lionel of Antwerp, 1st Duke of Clarence (1338-1368) Philippa Plantagenet, 5th Countess of Ulster (1355-1382) Roger Mortimer, 4th Earl of March (1374-1398) Anne Mortimer (1390-1411) Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York (1411-1460) Edward IV, King of England (1442-1483) Elizabeth of York (1465-1503) (wife of Henry VII) Margaret Tudor (1489-1541) James V, King of Scotland (1512-1542) Mary Stewart, Queen of Scotland (1542-1586) James I of England (1566-1625) Elizabeth Stuart, Electress Palatine (1596-1662) Sophia, Electress of Hanover (1630-1714) George I of Great Britain (1660-1727) George II of Great Britain (1683-1760) Frederick, Prince of Wales (1707-1751) George III of the United Kingdom (1738-1820) Prince Edward Augustus (1767-1820) Victoria of the United Kingdom (1819-1901) Edward VII of the United Kingdom (1841-1910) George V of the United Kingdom (1865-1936) George VI of the United Kingdom (1895-1952) Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom (1926) Shorter line of descent (Prefix is latest known "order of Charlemagne"; further work may show a shorter line.) 12 William I, King of England (1027-1087) 12 Henry I, King of England (1068-1135) (Henry Beauclerc) 13 Matilda of Normandy (1102-1167) 13 Henry II, King of England (1133-1189) (Henry Plantagenet) 14 Matilda of England (1156-1189) 15 Wilhelm von Braunschweig-Lüneburg (1184-1213) (William Longsword of Winchester) 16 Otto von Braunschweig-Lüneburg (c1204-1252) (Otto the Child) 17 Adelheid von Braunschweig (?-1274) 17 Otto von Hessen (1272-1328) 18 Ludwig von Hessen-Grebenstein (1319-1345) 19 Hermann von Hessen (1341-1413) 20 Ludwig von Hessen (1402-1458) 21 Heinrich von Hessen-Marburg (c1440-1483) 22 Elisabeth von Hessen (1466-1523) - stated (in late July 2009) to have no common ancestors with husband *23 Johann von Nassau-Dillenburg (1455-1516), but our systems take a little time for that sort of information to filter through 23 Wilhelm von Nassau-Dillenburg (1487-1559) (William the Rich) 24 Johann VI von Nassau-Dillenburg (1536-1606) 25 Ernst Casimir van Nassau-Dietz (1573-1632) 26 Willem Frederik van Nassau-Dietz (1613-1664) - married his second cousin *26 Albertine Agnes van Nassau (1634-1696) 27 Hendrik Casimir II van Nassau-Dietz (1657-1696) - married his cousin 28 Johan Willem Friso van Nassau-Dietz (1687-1711) 29 Willem IV van Oranje-Nassau (1711-1751) - m *32 Anne of England (1709-1759), daughter of George II 30 Caroline van Oranje-Nassau (1743-1787) 31 Henrietta von Nassau-Weilburg (1780-1857) 32 Alexander von Württemberg (1804-1885) 33 Franz von Teck (1837-1900) 34 Victoria Mary of Teck (1867-1953) ("Queen Mary", wife of George V and second cousin to his father) 35 George VI of the United Kingdom (1895-1952) 36 Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom (1926) Elizabeth's shortest line from Charlemagne bypasses William I and Henry I. Monarchs not in the direct royal line, and why The number after each monarch is their generation number (it corresponds to the number on the list above and the list below). William II (2), died without issue. The line passes through his younger brother, Henry I Stephen (3), he was from a more junior branch of the family; the line passes through his uncle of the senior line, Henry I Richard I (5), died without issue. The line passes through his younger brother, John Richard II (11), died without issue. The line passes through his grandfather's younger son, Lionel, Duke of Clarence Henry IV (11); the House of Lancaster was from a more junior branch of the family; the line passes through his uncle of the senior branch, Lionel, Duke of Clarence Henry V (12), the House of Lancaster was from a more junior branch of the family; the line passes through his great uncle of the senior branch, Lionel, Duke of Clarence Henry VI (13), the House of Lancaster was from a more junior branch of the family; the line passes through his great great uncle of the senior branch, Lionel, Duke of Clarence Edward V (16), the line passes through his sister, Elizabeth of York Richard III (15), the line passes through his elder brother's daughter, Elizabeth of York Henry VII (14), he is from a junior branch of the family. His wife, Elizabeth of York, is from the senior branch, and the line passes through her and then through their daughter, Margaret Tudor Henry VIII (17), all heirs died without issue. The line passes through his sister, Margaret Tudor Edward VI (18), died without issue. The line passes through his aunt, Margaret Tudor Mary I (18), died without issue. The line passes through her aunt, Margaret Tudor Elizabeth I (18), died without issue. The line passes through her aunt, Margaret Tudor Charles I (21), the line passes through his sister, Elizabeth, Electress Palatine Charles II (22), the line passes through his aunt, Elizabeth, Electress Palatine James II (22), the line passes through his aunt, Elizabeth, Electress Palatine Mary II (23), the line passes through her great aunt, Elizabeth, Electress Palatine William III (23), he was from a junior branch of the family and a cousin of his wife Mary II; the line passes through his great aunt, Elizabeth, Electress Palatine Anne (23), the line passes through her great aunt, Elizabeth, Electress Palatine George IV (27), the line passes through his younger brother, Prince Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent and Strathearn William IV (27), the line passes through his younger brother, Prince Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent and Strathearn Edward VIII (31), the line passes through his younger brother, George VI Monarchs of each generation This table shows the generation of each monarch based on their descent from William I via the royal line. The generational jump between Henry VII and Henry VIII is an interesting case shown on this list. Henry VIII is the son of Henry VII (generation 14 through an illegitimate junior line of John of Gaunt) as well as the son of Elizabeth of York (generation 16 through the senior Lionel, Duke of Clarence line). Henry VIII is counted as generation 17 because the royal line passes through his mother, who is of the senior line. This process will continue in the future. Prince William of Wales, if he becomes king, will add a line to Charles II, from whom he is descended through his mother Lady Diana. William I William II, Henry I Stephen, Empress Matilda Henry II Richard Lionheart, John Lackland Henry III Edward I Edward II Edward III none Richard II, Henry IV Henry V Henry IV Henry VII Edward IV, Richard III Edward V Henry VIII Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I Lady Jane Grey James I Charles I Charles II, James II Mary II, William III, Anne, George I George II none George III George IV, William IV Victoria Edward VII George V Edward VIII, George VI Elizabeth II Genealogical relationships to Elizabeth II The closest known relationships between Elizabeth and each king or queen of England, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom are given below. Monarch Relation to Elizabeth II William I of England 22nd Great-Grandfather Henry I of England 21st Great-Grandfather Stephen of England 20th Great-Grandfather Henry II of England 19th Great-Grandfather Richard I of England 18th Great-Granduncle John of England 18th Great-Grandfather Henry III of England 19th Great-Grandfather Edward I of England 18th Great-Grandfather Edward II of England 18th Great-Grandfather Edward III of England 17th Great-Grandfather Richard II of England 16th Great-Granduncle Henry IV of England 17th Great-Grandfather Henry V of England 16th Great-Granduncle Henry VI of England ½-14th Great-Granduncle Edward IV of England 15th Great-Grandfather Edward V of England 13th Great-Granduncle Richard III of England 14th Great-Granduncle Henry VII of England 13th Great-Grandfather Henry VIII of England 12th Great-Granduncle Edward VI of England 1st Cousin, 12 times Removed Lady Jane Grey 10th Great-Grandaunt Mary I of England 1st Cousin 13 times Removed Elizabeth I of England 1st Cousin 13 times Removed James I of England 9th Great-Grandfather Charles I of England 8th Great-Granduncle Charles II of England 1st Cousin 9 times Removed James II of England 1st Cousin 9 times Removed William III of England 1st Cousin 8 times Removed Mary II of England 2nd Cousin 8 times Removed Anne of Great Britain 2nd Cousin 8 times Removed George I of Great Britain 6th Great-Grandfather George II of Great Britain 5th Great-Grandfather George III of the United Kingdom 3rd Great-Grandfather George IV of the United Kingdom 2nd Great-Granduncle William IV of the United Kingdom 2nd Great-Granduncle Victoria of the United Kingdom 2nd Great-Grandmother Edward VII of the United Kingdom Great-Grandfather George V of the United Kingdom Grandfather Edward VIII of the United Kingdom Uncle George VI of the United Kingdom Father Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom Self Family tree This tree shows the descent of all British monarchs from William I, and their relationships with each other. Only branches that were used to determine succession of a monarch are shown. The direct royal line can be followed as the leftmost line. William I Henry I William II Adela of Normandy Empress Matilda Stephen Henry II John Richard I Henry III Edward I Edward II Edward III Lionel of Antwerp Edward the Black Prince John of Gaunt Philippa of Ulster Richard II Henry IV Earl John Beaufort Roger de Mortimer Henry V Duke John Beaufort Anne de Mortimer Henry VI Margaret Beaufort Richard, Duke of York Henry VII Edward IV Richard III Elizabeth of York Edward V Margaret Tudor Henry VIII Mary Tudor James V of Scotland Edward VI Mary I Elizabeth I Lady Frances Brandon Mary, Queen of Scots Lady Jane Grey James I Elizabeth Stuart Charles I Sophia of Hanover Mary Stuart James II Charles II George I William III = Mary II Anne George II Frederick, Prince of Wales George III Edward Augustus George IV William IV Victoria Edward VII George V George VI Edward VIII Elizabeth II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 Thank you, Chris A! It is rare for one's debating partner to offer such overwhelming evidence in favour of your own argument, and against their own. You are a generous opponent! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 😁 Aparently the true King of England, is an Australian with a direct line from The Yorkist, Richard the Third.😁 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagnut66 Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 2 hours ago, PeteH said: Aparently the true King of England, is an Australian with a direct line from The Yorkist, Richard the Third. There is some truth in that, though I think the line was through a sister or cousin of Richard, as his son died before he did. Tony Robinson presented a documentary on this very subject a few years back but the latest Australian heir wasn't interested in claiming the throne for himself..... Had Richard 111 not lost (unexpectedly) on Bosworth field our history might have been very different...... Best wishes, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Franklin Posted September 15, 2022 Report Share Posted September 15, 2022 On 08/09/2022 at 20:44, JohnD said: The Queen is dead: God save the King. We live in "interesting" times. I have never known another monarcha nd she once was said to rule a new Elizabethan Age. So we must now have a new Charlian one? The name is not auspicious. John I have heard the new age is to be known as Carolean or something? Earliest memory was of watching the Coronation on a tiny tv in a hotel in Torquay at the age of 4. God Save the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagnut66 Posted September 15, 2022 Report Share Posted September 15, 2022 9 minutes ago, Sue Franklin said: I have heard the new age is to be known as Carolean or something? You are correct. We are now in a new Carolean age, which is what the reign of a Charles as King is known as. As you also said. God save the King. Best wishes, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted September 15, 2022 Report Share Posted September 15, 2022 But only his best friends get to call him Carole-an. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 "Carolean" is based on the somewhat loose correlation of "Charles" with the Latin "Carolus". For the 21st, rather than the 1st Century CE, I think Charlean is better! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 48 minutes ago, JohnD said: "Carolean" is based on the somewhat loose correlation of "Charles" with the Latin "Carolus". For the 21st, rather than the 1st Century CE, I think Charlean is better! John So does that mean you've all moved on from being a bunch of Elizabethans to being a bunch of Charlies? 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 Yup, pretty much. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 Long ago! Claiming a New Elizabethan Age was a 50s thing. I even recall a youth magazine, the "New Elizabethan" whose sole claim to fame was that it featured the exploits of Molesworth, the archetypal scabby public schoolboy. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Twitchen Posted September 16, 2022 Report Share Posted September 16, 2022 Face, stance and silhouette looks vaguely familiar to a recently departed PM. Dick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 Gentlemen - Perhaps this thread, a mark of respect and celebration of our dearly departed and much loved Queen has maybe drifted enough now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 I don't know what time events start tomorrow, I'll look it up later, but here a couple of TV channels are starting their coverage at 06h00 our time, 05h00 UK. No doubt a long retrospective of her life. Our Union flag will be out at half mast for the day as will the drapeau tricolore on all the public buildings. The 19th of September is a date we won't be able to forget as it is the anniversary of our remarriage here in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 Hillsborough Castle yesterday morning. An amazing display, some great tributes. You could smell the flowers all along the street for half a mile or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 Currently on a cruise ship and at Antalya Turkey tomorrow. I haven't heard what or if the ship (Oceania Riviera) has anything planned but the Brits on board want to pay our respects to Her Majesty. Showing events in the theatre would be good if not they have a Chappel somewhere. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 dont they do keel hauling these days ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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