More on MOT exemption

[ShaunW]

On 7/23/2018 at 8:16 PM, Colin Lindsay said:

Did you see today's BBC News? Britain is sending our wonderfully washed clean and sorted waste off to other countries for recycling. THEY have now decided they can't do it, and are really just dumping it. The waste is washing up elsewhere but as it originated in Britain, guess who's in trouble? 

Sorry to be a contrarian again Colin but if we're in trouble then it's rightly so. Conscientious disposal doesn't just mean flogging it to the highest bidder and turning a blind eye to what happens next. If I subcontract out work, the buck still stops with me if it's done shoddily. 

Bottom line is that it won't matter who kills the planet, but the blame will be with those who were most financially and intellectually capable of preventing it. 

It's a shame the new breed of multi billionaires aren't more interested, instead you get Elon Musk creating space junk with that stupid car in space advertising stunt and the Google and Facebook guys making robot trucks and delivery drones to rob ordinary people of a way of making a living. Then there's bitcoin, now using more electricity than New Zealand. Our grandchildren who'll live until about 120 will experience some truly horrific consequences of the shortsighted stupidity of our generation. Somebody else's problem? 

I'm a gloomy so and so sometimes

 

[Badwolf]

Shaun. I understand your feelings but if you pay someone to dispose of the rubbish, you expect it to be done properly. When the bin men take away the general rubbish along with the recycling I have carefully sorted (paid for by me in the local rates), I stupidly expect them to dispose of it correctly and am not going to chase them up to find out what they did with it. The only other thing to do is take the rubbish back from whence it came and say I don't want this... yours to deal with. I'm sure Asda, Tesco etc would love me for it.

[NonMember]

Well, from a legal contractual perspective, Shaun is probably right. From a moral perspective, he's definitely right. But in both cases, the context is a national one - our nation as a whole, or at least those institutions we put in place to represent us, have legal and moral duties to ensure that any third party they subcontract to is going to perform the task to a sufficient standard. Subcontracting is NOT, and I'm sorry that this will come as news to most bosses, but it is NOT just a cheap way of disposing of a responsibility.

As to your returning the rubbish whence it came... if it's only you doing it then we call it fly tipping. If we had a well-supported national campaign of dumping our excessive food packaging on the doors of the supermarkets who sold it then perhaps we might see some more responsible food packaging policies developed.

[Badwolf]

All our household waste is responsibly sorted before collection by the local council who I expect to dispose of it in accordance with current environmental policies (whether this be well written and acted on or not). Anything they do not collect, such as oil, timber etc, I take to the local recycling center. It annoys me intensly that a huge percent of the plastic packaging that we have to dispose of is due to the demands of the supermarkets. All down to convenience and self service to keep prices down to attract us to buy..... on and on. All most of it needs is a simple, recycled paper bag which decomposes or can be burned to make electricity for electric cars. Even the parts I ordered from Rimmers recently were individually packed in plastic bags which I will keep for further use rather than just throw away. The supermarkets use the packaging. We should give it back to them after use... rant over!!!

[Colin Lindsay]

On 7/25/2018 at 1:56 AM, ShaunW said:

Sorry to be a contrarian again Colin but if we're in trouble then it's rightly so. Conscientious disposal doesn't just mean flogging it to the highest bidder and turning a blind eye to what happens next. If I subcontract out work, the buck still stops with me if it's done shoddily. 

Bottom line is that it won't matter who kills the planet, but the blame will be with those who were most financially and intellectually capable of preventing it. 

Our grandchildren who'll live until about 120 will experience some truly horrific consequences of the shortsighted stupidity of our generation. Somebody else's problem? 

I'm a gloomy so and so sometimes

 

No problem with contrarians, I'm usually one myself! Debate and discussion are excellent with a good cup of coffee. (More grumpy without.)

If I pass a job on to someone and pay them for it, then if they fail to perform despite all my guidelines and safety checks, is it my fault? 

China and India both (1st and 3rd heaviest polluters of CO2 on the planet) have both flatly refused to reduce their CO2 emissions, not to mention litter pollution levels. So WE as a so-called civilised and wealthy country get punished time and time again for pollution that's a fraction of others', without even making the slightest dent in output levels worldwide, while these so-called poor countries are given a bye-ball and so go on buying up our industry with all their spare cash.

No doubt our grandparents complained that the soot-darkened Industrial skies of days gone by would be blamed on them by future generations - that's us! - yet its amazing how many dead, rotten swampy streams that I remember from my childhood are now thriving rivercourses again, and the belching chimneys seem to have no left no lasting legacy other than  a few blackened bricks.

 

[dougbgt6]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

if they fail to perform despite all my guidelines and safety checks, is it my fault? 

Well yes, if you don't do anything about it.  "All that's required for evil to prevail is good men do nothing"

59 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

the belching chimneys seem to have no left no lasting legacy other than  a few blackened bricks.

Have yo been outside recently? Yesterday was the hottest day on record, today even hotter. There's a reason for that, not unconnected to belching chimneys.

db

 

[Anglefire]

I'm afraid I'm not a believer in global warming being Man made. Not helped to a degree, but not caused by. Proof indeed if you need it is that is has happened before. One vulcano doing the big firework produces more stuff than most others.

That said, there is no excuse to use up the earth's natural resources as soon as possible nor to not keep the place clean and tidy.

[Pete Lewis]

strikes me that since we cleaned everything up its all got much worse

when you could'nt  see across the road there was no such thing as global anything and a footprint lasted as long as the mud or snow

they have blamed warming since way back with aerosols and cfc's   every year they make up another culprit and blame something ,

so what resolved the ice age ,  not global warming surely 

Pete ....bring back the dinosaurs  all is fogiven

 

[Colin Lindsay]

29 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Well yes, if you don't do anything about it.  "All that's required for evil to prevail is good men do nothing"

Have yo been outside recently? Yesterday was the hottest day on record, today even hotter. There's a reason for that, not unconnected to belching chimneys.

db

Remember last summer? Cold and wet, and the global warming doomsayers were ominously quiet....

However: "All that's required for evil to prevail is good men do nothing"? Good men are trying to do something, they're being punished for it because they trusted the evil men to do their jobs, which I see as a real undeserved kick in the teeth. Sadly the evil men vastly outnumber them, and are making a fool of them by openly laughing at their feeble efforts to save the planet. I recycle as much as I can, but what's the point when millions of the world's population don't give a monkeys? How many days of walking to work will cancel out the emissions of one Indian factory?

[Pete Lewis]

what is this 'work' thing 

and we left out all the latest disasters........... forest fires    loads   of smoke lookat the number of cars burnt out in greece

holly smoke ??  

 

pete

[daverclasper]

It does appear that the ice caps are consistently melting at a very fast rate?.

Dave 

[NonMember]

Please, can we ban global warming denial on here. The science is very clear to anyone with an understanding of the scale of things and spouting gut feel nonsense about "last year" (which, by the way, was much hotter than 1975) leads only to noise, not signal.

[Anglefire]

NonMember, sorry no, I won't be stopped from saying what I think! The very cheek of it.

Its a view held by many. And read what I wrote, I didn't deny man has contributed to it, but not the cause as the earth warms up and cools down in cycles. 

[Pete Lewis]

Maybe we need to calibrate thread drift in grades from funny to serious in no particular order  for no particular reason

Even applause for staying on subject 

Pete 

 

[thescrapman]

I wonder if Global Warming Denial will become a criminal offence in the future?

[dougbgt6]

Hope so, it came to me in a flash,  a clear way to dispose off The Trumpster. 

db

[68vitesse]

Probably and like the Brexit vote if they don't like the answer fight to change it, wonder how far the plans are advanced to only have one candidate in elections to stop the voters getting it wrong.

Thought we lived in a democracy.

Regards

Paul

[dougbgt6]

Brexit Alert!!!!!  

Kevin where are you?!!

db

[68vitesse]

"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" Evelyn Beatrice Hall.

Regards.

Paul

[dougbgt6]

Or Voltaire, possibly?

Doug

[thescrapman]

I got my first taste of "democracy"  when I was at Poly (showing my age)

There was the elections for the Students union and an SDP (age showing again) aligned candidate won the presidency, easily.

There was an immediate vote of no confidence in him as he "wasn't supposed to win"

He survived the whole year of attempts to correct the wrong election result.

[ShaunW]

11 hours ago, 68vitesse said:

Probably and like the Brexit vote if they don't like the answer fight to change it, wonder how far the plans are advanced to only have one candidate in elections to stop the voters getting it wrong.

Thought we lived in a democracy.

Regards

Paul

That IS democracy. Otherwise we'd have had one general election in 1786 and called it that. If 'the nation chose' so emphatically then why are the Brexit bunch so worried about a rerun on the consequences anyway? Are they worried people might have changed their minds... If that's so then shouldn't they have a democratic opportunity to express it?  

I happen to think Brexit would win again, but I'm defending our phylosophical and constitutional principals which are both 'proud' British traditions, not my own self interest. 

Not having a vote on the outcome is a denial of democracy not a defence of it, it's an incoherent position. 

[68vitesse]

So if there was another vote and the Brexit supporters lost you would support their call for another vote. It could go back and forth for ever.

Regards

Paul

[Anglefire]

I think the trouble with the existing Brexit vote is that the options weren't explained well enough on either side and was run by fear.

Another vote wouldn't be any different in my view. Given that everything the remainers said would happen, hasn't. Now that may well be due to the Bank  of England or the government being correct with their policies - but if that had been made clearer at the start more may have voted to leave.

As it happens I voted to leave and am more inclined to keep that view largely because the Eu has shown its true colours.

 

Anyway this is a classic car forum and I won;t mention Global warning or Brexit again.

[ShaunW]

2 hours ago, Anglefire said:

Given that everything the remainers said would happen, hasn't. 

That's because we haven't actually left yet. And to be fair we haven't seen any of the alleged benefits either. 

Economics is what it is, nobody knows what's going on, it might be good and it might be bad. The jury is open. 

Imho the problem wasn't Europe, the problem was that we didn't have what it takes to be the Germany in the relationship. Europe was ours for the taking in the 70s and 80s but our governments and our industry just wasn't up to the job.  I wasn't ready to throw the towel in just yet. 

However we all voted everyone needs to remember that we ALL want the best for this country, we just have different ideas about how best to do it. Nobody is a traitor for continuing to fight for what they genuinely believe is in everyone's interests.  We should feel united in our love for this grey little island not divided. 

Maybe just maybe a little bit of both sides wishes can be accommodated? It's always the best, most democratic solution.