Electronic ignition

[petegardner_901]

Can someone give me a quick run down on the best system for a Spitfire 1500.

Club shop seems to be selling something different to Rimmers? 

Do I need a power module and new coil or just something to replace the points/condenser?

thanks for any advice

[thescrapman]

Couple of options, a Luminition one or a Pertronix,  or one of the lower cost Accuspark type.

Former are a lot more expensive, but seem a lot more reliable.

Always carry a spare if you fit the cheaper one.

I have been lucky in that my cheapo ones have only failed due to poor fitting.

[Paul H]

 

Hi , I’ve fitted the Accuspark on my Vitesse . I also purchased an Accuspark coil which  I believe wasn’t necessary but at least I have a spare and like the Scrapman I fitted it incorrectly and it failed . My issue was that the rotor arm touched the Accuspark unit in the distributor . Everything was fine for months then the retaining screw on the unit loosened . Always carry your original points . 

The Accuspark runs well and has done 2000 miles 

Paul 

[johny]

the first choice Pete is whether you want a unit completely contained in the distributor or are happy to have only the sensor there and the electronics mounted outside. The advantage of the outside unit could be reliability as then the electronics should be more robust and have better cooling. Sparkrite do units of both types and have some interesting extras such as rev limiters, LED power indicators and even sensors that dont need an additional trigger (most need some sort attached to the rotor in the distributor).

[Chris A]

I have an Accuspark unit in my 13/60, since 2015 and covered close to 8000 miles, it is fitted inside the distributor so still looks 'original'. Works fine & I am happy with it.

[Pete Lewis]

as your 1500 has a ballasted coil  , thats a 6/8volt coil fed by a resistive lead or a dropper near the coil ( depends on age )

this has a bypass from the solenoid so when cranking it gives the 6v coil a 12v feed ( only when cranking)  there are some electronics units which do not work well at the 6 volt they have an operating range of 6 to 18v  so its easy to on a cold day and a low battery to find the unit doest work well.

many bypass the ballast sytem or make a seperate 12v ignition feed to the unit .

note that a 6v system has a coil of 1.5 ohms   and a 12v needs a 3 ohm  coil  so a bypassed system will need a coil change . running a 6v coil on 12v doubles the current and HT voltage beyond what the system will handle you get blown dizzy rotor caps and a very hot egg frying coil

this is a general comment after years of  finding  miss  fits and problems , each to their own idea on this 

Pete

 

[dougbgt6]

What Pete said. And you can get EI specifically for ballasted systems, mine is an Aldon aka Pertronix. They do a wide range and mine is for the 6 volt system, so no need to bypass or change the coil.

I carry the old points, condenser, screws and a screwdriver in a plastic bag under the passenger seat. At least, I think they’re still there!

Doug

[Iain T]

I went for pertronix Ignitor 2 on my vitesse, again from Aldon. Phone them and they will advise on various systems. Smooths out tick over and gives a big spark so you can open up the plug gaps.

[Nigel Clark]

Go for the simplicity of a magnetic trigger electronic ignition, as it fits inside the distributor with only two wires to connect. Pertronix, Aldon Ignitor, Accuspark and magnetic Lumenition types are all available for the Spitfire.

Accuspark is the least expensive. Some have reported reliability problems with Accuspark but I've had one on my Scimitar GTE for 4 years/20k miles and no sign of a problem.

Whichever version you use, the benefits are as Iain notes above. Also consider upgrading to Magnecor HT leads and multi-electrode spark plugs e.g. NGK BUR6ET. Once you've set the timing with a strobe, you can forget about maintaining the ignition system almost for ever!

Nigel

[Mjit]

Best - full mappable electric ignition, such as MegaJolt.  Good side - rock steady spark at the right time, every time/better performance/better fuel economy.  Flip side - most work (mounting a trigger wheel on the crank pully/crank sensor 1mm from trigger wheel/Ford EDIS moduel/Ford coil pack/MegaJolt unit/wiring) plus rolling road session to get the best from it.

Next - Probably a 123 distributor.  Good side new, so takes dizzy wear out of the equation and mappable to one degree or another.  Flip side - expensive and still less accurate than crank trigger wheel (fewer data points per revolution).

Third place - The rest.  Good side - cheap, (should be) more reliable than points, and can cover up some dizzy wear.  Down side - can't cover up all dizzy wear and still stuck with standard, compromize advance curve.  Probably the best option for a standard engine with a dizzy in good condition.

 

For a standard engine and dizzy in good condition one of the basic 'points replacement' systems is the best starting point if you're just trying to make things more reliable.

On the other hand if the engine's standard but the dizzy past it's sell by date then a 123 dizzy if you're scared of wires/mappable if you're not.

For a tuned engine I'd say jump straight to mappable ignition.  My car was always compromized on a mechanical dizzy, needing 3000RPM for pull away or running out of puff at 400RPM.  Since going MegaJolt it's happy from 2000-6000RPM, with more get-up-and-go than any dizzy setting and better fuel consumptions too (on a long drive where I'm not using that better get-up-and-go too much).

[Iain T]

I agree with Mjit, it depends on how far you want to go and how deep your pockets are. I would have gone for a 123 distributor but they do not make one with a rev counter take-off, for me the Pertronix has been very stable.

Nick I like the look of the multi-electrode spark plugs, I'll put them on my Christmas list!

[Pete Lewis]

base on a good few problem   classics running  with resistive   plugs with an R in the suffix is they dont work well on our standard 22kv HT 

swap for normals and hey presto all is recovered , so Im an advocate of  no R's    

pete

[Iain T]

Done a bit of digging re multi-electrode plugs and as the spark will always fire to the path of least resistance ie the closest electrode I can't see the advantage. Perhaps as there are more electrodes when one wears the next one takes over to give longer non maintenance life but having a classic car is all about tinkering. Agree with Pete don't buy anything with R suffix just play around to get the correct temperature plug for how you drive and the tune state of your engine. I have NGK BP6ES on my Vitesse, standard is BP5ES for a Spitfire 1500.

Iain

[yorkshire_spam]

I guess everyone's experience varies, I've been "Powerspark" electronic ignition and BPR5ES plugs in my Spitfire 1500 for well over 15,000 miles (6 years) without issues. Must be just good luck on my part!

 

[wimpus]

I have a kit from SimonBBC on my Spit 1500 and done around 100.000miles in the 5 years of fitting it (yes i drive her to much).

Never failed me, got my money back big time !

Using NGK BP5ES, coil is a very old blue Bosch 12v one.

[thescrapman]

There Is a a multi pronged Bosch that is much Better than the NGK, proving very difficult to foul in my PI cars.

about £1.50 each I think.

[Nigel Clark]

I've fitted BUR6ET to my GT6 and TR6 (they have similar heat range as the standard single electrode plugs specified for our Triumph engines). Also tried Bosch multi-electrode WR78. All give smoother idling and sharper pick up on acceleration with both engines.

The multi-electrode plugs will also last for at least 20k miles and never need the gaps adjusting.

Nigel

[Chris A]

25 minutes ago, wimpus said:

 done around 100.000miles in the 5 years of fitting it (yes i drive her to much).

 

Lucky b*gg£r !

I really should get out more in my Triumph 😃

[Pete Lewis]

remember this one  

and  this one 

 

[Mjit]

 

22 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

base on a good few problem   classics running  with resistive   plugs with an R in the suffix is they dont work well on our standard 22kv HT 

swap for normals and hey presto all is recovered , so Im an advocate of  no R's    

pete

If you go full MegaJolt, etc electronic ignition then you MUST have resistive plugs (and matching HT leads).
I don't know what 123 say for their kit but most "points replacement" systems are just hall effect sensors so don't need 'R' plugs.

[Mjit]

18 hours ago, thescrapman said:

There Is a a multi pronged Bosch that is much Better than the NGK, proving very difficult to foul in my PI cars.

about £1.50 each I think.

Multi electrode plugs, be they Bosch/SplitFire/etc only have one benefit - longer service intervals between needing to adjust the spark plug gaps...which on a lot of members cars will be "never".  One electroide is always closer than the others, so the one the spark jumps to.  Over time the electrode burns down until it's no longer the closest, at which point the spark naturally jumps to the new closest electrode.

At a guess a bit of fouling on a single electrode plug and that's all she wrote.  On a multi electroide plug the spark will just jump to the next, hopefully less fouled electrode, with the then running engine able to 'clean up' the fouling.

[Pete Lewis]

but megajolt runs at a very much higher HT than our std   coil set ups so thats ok  but not on our  std.  60s set up.

if comparing apples for apples   both vastly different 

pete

 

[Nick Jones]

21 hours ago, Nigel Clark said:

I've fitted BUR6ET to my GT6 and TR6 (they have similar heat range as the standard single electrode plugs specified for our Triumph engines). Also tried Bosch multi-electrode WR78. All give smoother idling and sharper pick up on acceleration with both engines.

The multi-electrode plugs will also last for at least 20k miles and never need the gaps adjusting.

Nigel

Yes!! I’ve been running Bosch multi-electrode plugs in all my Triumphs for at least 20 years after a chance discovery involving some very well used ones from our Golf GTI in a flooded Herald.  They just work better. Suspect I always used the WR7DTC as listed for the Golf even with conventional points ignition, but it has become “correct” now two of our three Triumphs run coil pack ignition.

I have a theory that the reason they work better is that they are effectively side electrode plugs with the spark exposed to the combustion chamber and the number of electrodes is a red herring.

Haven’t found any “haters” who’ve actually tried them...... Plenty that haven’t.

Nick

 

[Nigel Clark]

18 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

Haven’t found any “haters” who’ve actually tried them...... Plenty that haven’t.

Nick

 

That's exactly my experience! But I can't tell the difference between 4 electrode Bosch and 3 electrode NGK. Both show similar benefits over standard plugs.

Nigel

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

               I also changed to Bosch multi electrodes after recommendation from Nick when I went over to Micro Squirt and had a few fouling problems while trying to get the mixture right.

Once they were in no fouling again even while messing with all sorts of settings!

I use the Bosch WR78 I think they have done about 15,000 miles now!

I pulled them today and had a look at them all the gaps seem to be the same(0.035") give or take a whisker

I wonder if they are better as there seems to be 8 spark paths and perhaps it is like when the old Engine Tuners use to index the plugs so the spark was towards the inlet valve?

Roger