Synthetic Fuels

[Chris A]

I can see that the 'fuel' cost of an EV can be a lot lower than for an ICE, but how do the 2 types compare in total over, say 10 years. Purchase, running, maintenance and depreciation?

 

[PeteH]

Of course part the reason that E-V "fuel" costs are lower is the Fuel taxation regeim. 60%(ish) of a Litre of Petrol/Diesel is TAX. Electricity is only 5%VAT in the UK and I understand not even taxed in some countries?. In terms of Lifetime costs, one must also factor in the cost of the raw materials/rare metals/plastics, used in E-V production. It`s a can of worms that many advocates of the E-V fail to address. "Cheap/Free" electricity still carries a price....................Somewhere.

On a Different Note, SWMBO has the Latest incarnation of the Quashqai, what is described as a "mild hybrid", still a 1200cc petrol but somewhere hidden is a Battery, which "assists"?, The most noticable thing about it is the accelleration, can quite catch you out at times, but OK for showing the local "boy/girl racers" a clean rear end. The downside (for me) is the dammed stop/start thing. Been online trying to find a way of permanently offing it!, without breaking the warranty.

Mind if the "Welsh experiment" (20mph) catches on nobody will be going anywhere.........fast. Already complaints from delivery drivers as to the extra time it takes to make urban deliveries, and the extra fuel consumption, and by definition added pollution from running I-C`s below optimum efficency.

Pete

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

the dammed stop/start thing. Been online trying to find a way of permanently offing it!, without breaking the warranty.

The first time I encountered a stop/start car was a trip to the UK by air with a hire car, a nice VW Passat automatic, at the first lights the engine stopped, PANIC!

My Yeti has it, I don't mind it now - I just play the 'will it won't it' game at stops

[68vitesse]

Always turn stop start of on starting the car, have to do it on every restart. Think a hired Fiat I drove in Italy if you turned stop start off it stayed in that state untill manually turned on.

Regards

Paul.

[Chris A]

2 hours ago, 68vitesse said:

Always turn stop start of on starting the car,

Don't think I can on my Yeti, I don't do a lot of stop/start driving, one of the advantages of living in rural France

[Pete Lewis]

most moderns have all the wonder pain in the butt driving aids  you dont need 

some thing useful like a usb socket in the mirror hsg for a dash cam makes more sense .!!!

My C5x you can set the collision warning distance but the do you want to change lanes self steering and stop start need resetting every time you fire up

do we need any of this ludicrous crap .  the stop start stops just when you want to take off so the auto jumps into rag it mode and you tear off at a silly rate

the constant twitch chasing white lines a verges , followed by your too close  is all a PITA ive managed to drive safely since 1964  and dont need this crap

>>>>may be i do the crash i had mounted the 2000 into the back of a colleagues  Herald  out on a club run   but   thats another story 

but driving aids are just a frustrating hindrance on your own grey matter   

well at least the suns out .and we emptied the Port bottle at lunch  Ha !!

Pete

[Chris A]

4 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

most moderns have all the wonder pain in the butt driving aids  you dont need 

some thing useful like a usb socket in the mirror hsg for a dash cam makes more sense .!

Or maybe rear indicator lights that are big enough to see. It seems the latest fad is tiny indicators on the back that you can't see especially if the car is braking at the same time

[Firefly]

I feel your pain.

VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda. Stop start. There is an easy fix for permanently disabling this function. On the battery negative post clamp, is a small plug with a wire disappearing to a black box somewhere, if you disconnect this plug it will disable the start stop. This wire monitors the battery voltage, and if the battery is not fully charged the black box disables the stop start, so if its disconnected it thinks the battery is not up to par. Other vehicles may have the same sort of system?

 

Lane assist…...positively dangerous.

On my Skoda attached to the rear view mirror fixing is a module that contains the camera that looks for white lines etc. I removed the cover and put a blanking cap over the lens….`no more someone else` trying to steer the car. On other types vehicles worth looking for the camera and taping over the lens and see what happens.

[Colin Lindsay]

On the Mondeo you just push the button (can't remember the actual symbol / name) and that's it, no more stop / start. 

All these gimmicks are scary, especially if there are warning lights that won't go off so you can't pass MOT.

Take me back to the days of: "Oh look it's even got coathooks!" The ultimate Herald upgrade.

[Peter Truman]

All my recent moderns it can be switched off but it reactivates every time you start afresh 

When I accidentally forget to deactivate it it’s amazing what it’s connected to even the steering and you just have to touch the steering wheel to restart the engine so it’s very complicated what the idle restart is connected to like all things modern far to complicated

don’t think my sons 2014 VW Polo has it as I can’t remember getting frustrated when I drive it 

[Wagger]

I should have studied my first vehicle more at the time in 1964, A Czech Jawa scooter. It had 12v electrics, a 5bhp 98cc engine with a 400w dynostarter, The dynostarter would drive it with the plug removed. It had a radial commutator with windings within the flywheel. These daya a Magnetic coupling would have made it really workable.

The Czechs were brilliant inovators, copied by Ferdinand Porshe? (Tatra).

[Chris A]

3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

All these gimmicks are scary, especially if there are warning lights that won't go off so you can't pass MOT.

Last week I dropped my car off at the local garage for q little job and he lent me his car, a Shogun to get back home in. He said to ignore the warning light. The one that lit up was the pictogram of the engine, you know the one if it lights up you have to panic, cut the engine and get to a garage.

[Chris A]

23 hours ago, Chris A said:

On 08/10/2023 at 10:55, 68vitesse said:

Always turn stop start of on starting the car,

Don't think I can on my Yeti, 

Of course I can I just press that button I found on the central console below the heating controls 🙄. Took Madame for her kiné treatment and while waiting decided to clear some of the navsat destinations off the memory now we are back from our visit to Bretagne. I spotted a button that I had completely forgotten about to cancel the stop/start function. Looked it up in the instruction book, needs to be reset every time the engine is started though. . . 

[Pete Lewis]

On the C5X  all has to be accessed by the silly touch screen the simple cancell button on previous models has been deleted 

so its hunt the menu's to find where it hides and  select  OFF  till you restart and its all back ON 

life was much simpler without these stupid must haves 

the cruise control is so complicated you either get a memory of 120 or enter  a self steering mode if you let go the stg wheel it tells you to HOLD THE WHEEL

then the brake distance beeps and flashes Brake  Brake Brake    why we only past a post box 

Grrrr      need some custard and apple pie 

Pete

Edited October 9, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[Gully]

I disliked the Start/Stop function on my manual Mercedes a few years ago, but it's fine on my current Kia automatic. I switch it off at certain busy junctions where you can't afford the hesitation (friendly button on the centre console), but generally switch it back on again afterwards.

I do hate lane assist - first thing I switch off when I start the car, but I did find it useful initially when driving a left hand drive hire car (for the first time in over 30 years!) in Austria earlier in the year.

Gully

[Wagger]

21 hours ago, Chris A said:

Last week I dropped my car off at the local garage for q little job and he lent me his car, a Shogun to get back home in. He said to ignore the warning light. The one that lit up was the pictogram of the engine, you know the one if it lights up you have to panic, cut the engine and get to a garage.

Currently I have "Steering lock is not working" accompanied by "Do not turn engine off. Engine will not restart". For a month, it has been lying. Just a question of time eh?

The steering lock is working, but the sensors say NOT. No quick fix. Need a laptop and dongle.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

When it does finally fail to start, is there a little light that comes on and says "I told you so!"?

[Chris A]

42 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

When it does finally fail to start, is there a little light that comes on and says "I told you so!"?

Probably a big smiley 😊 on the display

[Wagger]

17 hours ago, Chris A said:

Probably a big smiley 😊 on the display

What do the Germans use for one and two finger salute? Watch out for this one, It is common across all BMW's including the BMW Mini. If if is not an MOT failure, maybe I'll live with it. It is scaring my passengers (family members) on hospital runs. One brother insists that I use his car when I take him. That worked well. Not my  fuel or wear and tear.

[Mjit]

Can't say I understand the hatred of stop/start people seem to have on here.  Hell now I have them both behaving well I do manual stop/start if I'm in queueing traffic.  I just don't see the point in sitting still burning petrol when you're not moving, and modern stop/start is seamless in my experience.

Based no my limited experience of lane assist I can't way I'm a fan of that - no idea WHAT it was seeing but my mum's Kia was desperate to pull me into the gutter going along one very specific streatch of road.  Took my a couple of drives to realise what was happening and freaked me out the first time it happened (when I didn't even know the car had lane assist).

Had an electric hire car back in the summer and had to switch the regen. profile down when I was driving.  Just too many years of coming off the gas/covering the brake and coasting to get over in 1 week, so lots of randomly slowing down 100m from junctions as I took my foot off the gas and the regen. jumped right in.

[Steve P]

My other half has a Kia Sportage with all that cobblers on it, it has one button with a capital A symbol that turns all of it off. Has to be done every time I get in it though. Agree the lane assist is dreadful in it.

S

[PeteH]

I cannot speak for anyone else. But after more than 60years of driving, everything from tracked vehicles to rally cars. I find it insulting that some car manufacturer’s apprentice thinks they know what I want? If I wish the car to shut down whilst waiting in a queue. Then I will push the stop button. Not some bunch of electronics which think they know best. I like my technology but I draw the line at it controlling me. Similarly I have driven vehicle in some parts of the world that have no conception of what a white line actually is where even the road itself is more a figment of the imagination. Where spraying tar onto graded hardened earth in designated a highway. Anyone who watched the Top Gear episode in Vietnam/Cambodia, will get the idea. 
 

Pete

[AndyTV8]

On 07/10/2023 at 22:20, Chris A said:

I can see that the 'fuel' cost of an EV can be a lot lower than for an ICE, but how do the 2 types compare in total over, say 10 years. Purchase, running, maintenance and depreciation?

 

It’s a bit difficult to give a 10-year view at this point, but I can confirm that the servicing costs for our PHEV are the same as that of the Petrol or Diesel versions of the car. 
Depreciation of course is usually the biggest cost with a new vehicle, at the moment the forecast depreciation is lower with the PHEV than the Petrol or Diesel version, although the recently revised move to 2035 for New ICE cars could alter that, although I suspect not by much.

The purchase price was higher - it cost £2.5k more, but the key factor for us was that the delivery time for an ICE-only version diesel or petrol was 9-12months (all cars being received in 11months)  - the PHEV was 3-6 and arrived in 4months. The vast majority of the choice was based on the delivery date!  Given average mileage the price premium will be negated after a couple of years assuming nothing really wild happens with the electric/petrol/diesel differentials.

At the moment we are happy with our choice, but as with everything - time will tell - and the Triumph will still be used regardless!  

……… Andy

[Puglet1]

On 09/10/2023 at 11:44, Chris A said:

Of course I can I just press that button I found on the central console below the heating controls 🙄. Took Madame for her kiné treatment and while waiting decided to clear some of the navsat destinations off the memory now we are back from our visit to Bretagne. I spotted a button that I had completely forgotten about to cancel the stop/start function. Looked it up in the instruction book, needs to be reset every time the engine is started though. . . 

Hi Chris. I was just going to tell you about that button when I saw the above quote.

Great minds must think alike…. Both Triumph and Yeti owners. 👍Before moving to my current location I drove a 430 BHP Golf R estate which was a brilliant car but not suitable for the terrain and weather conditions we experience here. People laughed when I said I’d bought a Yeti but after doing much research it suits my needs perfectly and performs much better than some may think!

[thescrapman]

On 07/10/2023 at 16:54, Colin Lindsay said:

China is putting TWO new coal fired stations onto their grid per day, so with that capacity, they should be world leaders in electric cars soon. 

On the subject of clean electricity, I was talking a few days ago about a need to dispose of bold car tyres, he said the lack scrappie took them for free, as they shred them and sell them to India To burn in a power station. 

And as they are classed as fuel no restrictions on the export.