poppyman Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 hour ago, thescrapman said: Same as Adrian, I just keep the water from the dehumidifier and like Clive mix It with ECP antifreeze. Do I win prize for most financially astute? Have you seen what it cost's to run a dehumidifier Scrapman? Room for improvement Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 Only applicable if you run the dehumidifier just to get water. If it’s a by product then it is indeed astute and sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Anglefire said: astute and sensible. Sorry but there is no room on this forum for people who have either of those afflictions 🥴 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 Anagram of Astute -- statue Anagram of Sensible -- Beinless this mean not having any Bein. Sadly Bein is not a word so can't be used in Scrabble. But whi knows, this time next year !!!! I'm bored Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Anglefire said: Only applicable if you run the dehumidifier just to get water. If it’s a by product then it is indeed astute and sensible. Astute and Sensible - purveyors of fine distilled water to the gentry since 2020. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 Humidifier cheaper to run than a tumble drier , but we dont need any Hot Air ..........Do we??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 I'm intrigued to read that Evans Waterless is based on propylene glycol. I use propylene glycol as an antifreeze additive to water in the Spit cooling system. The absence of water in the Evans means it will move less heat and bits of your engine will get hotter, as water has the greatest heat capacity (I think) of just about anything. Anything you put in to water will lower the heat capacity - hence the ability to move heat from A to B. If you don't rag your engine this may not matter, but if you give it the beans you may loose horsepower or worse. As it happens - and I only learnt this after changing over from ethylene glycol - propylene glycol has a lower heat capacity than ethylene glycol, so will shift less heat for the same % antifreeze used. Why do our cars use ethylene glycol? It's historic and stems from the days when you would drain some water and add antifreeze for the winter, then fill with fresh water for the summer. Presumably because you want better cooling in summer and frost protection in winter. Ethylene glycol is cheaper than propylene glycol so that was the antifreeze of choice. However, ethylene glycol is nasty stuff and attacks the nervous system and kills you. It's BANNED from domestic heating systems in case children or pets taste the water from weeping pipes & radiators. (I have seen an ethylene glycol product which contains an antidote but it's very expensive.) You used to be able to buy propylene glycol antifreeze for cars but these seem to have disappeared in recent times. However, you CAN buy domestic heating antifreeze and this is what I've used in my 6-pot Spit and will also go in the Atlas when I (eventually) get it on the road. There is anecdotal evidence that Rolls Royce specified the brand of propylene glycol in their cars. Another advantage of using domestic heating antifreeze is that the anti corrosion agents last 20- to 25-years, not 2 or 3. Nobody wants to be changing their central heating water every other year! Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: Humidifier cheaper to run than a tumble drier , but we dont need any Hot Air ..........Do we??? Only if we get an air lock in the heater from using the wrong coolant Pete..... Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 A bit late to this thread, but for what its worth I have been using distilled water (dehumidifier) in my cars and also house central heating system for years (previous post, ages back). No chemicals, no disolved solids (no 'kettle fur' build up). The by- product of damp rooms so no real cost as, as mentioned earlier, it would just go down the drain. Pop bottle full in the car boot... no problem. If I have to fill up on the fly due to a disaster, just dump it at home re-fill, add anti freeze, brilliant. Also, the old house central heating boiler has no problems with deposits in the manifold chamber. I do draw the line at boiling the dustilled water to rid it of oxygen to cut down on internal rusting. Each to his own! By the way on no account use the waste drain water from a combi boiler, it is acidic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Can I use the water from my tumble dryer? It's distilled and the engine bay will smell nice? Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said: Can I use the water from my tumble dryer? It's distilled and the engine bay will smell nice? Doug Just used boiled water if you live in a hard water area....if you are worried about tap water. (I use tap water. And I used to know a lot about chemistry. Tap water does not worry me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Does boiling tap water actually reduce the disolved solids (limescale) a great deal. It might destroy certain additives and boil out the disolved gas but I'm not sure about other stuff that might bung up or coat the inside of the waterways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Doug - Tumble drier water should be ok as its a distillate rather than being caused as a by-product, such as that caused by burning gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Badwolf said: Does boiling tap water actually reduce the disolved solids (limescale) a great deal. It might destroy certain additives and boil out the disolved gas but I'm not sure about other stuff that might bung up or coat the inside of the waterways. The limescale in my kettle comes from somewhere, I don't add it . . .😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted December 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 I stopped using distilled water a long time ago, after reading similar articles to this one: https://www.hyperlube.com/blog/blog/why-you-should-never-use-distilled-water-in-your-cooling-system/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Badwolf said: Does boiling tap water actually reduce the disolved solids (limescale) a great deal. It might destroy certain additives and boil out the disolved gas but I'm not sure about other stuff that might bung up or coat the inside of the waterways. Not destroy, but causes much of the temporary hardness to be removed. But have a think. What is it you are concerned about it tap water?? Or do you just like the idea of distilled? The reason a kettle gets limescale buildup is the temporary hardness being removed. Boil it twice if you wish. But as the temporary hardness has been removed, what else will be bunging up the waterways? Well, bits of iron oxide/rust from th eengine, but that is easily stopped by using a 30% solution of antifreeze. I know one chap who has been using neat antifreeze for decades, never gets any corrosion. Downside is that neat antifreeze is not as effective at removing heat. But in a system that is well set up, it is not an issue. But as said, I just use tapwater, and I live in a hard water area. Saying that, if the water was as hard here as it is in France (specifically the area around Vias) I would boil it. Every time I made a cuppa the kettle would get great flakes of limescale. I was shocked, assuming nobody had rinsed the kettle out for ages before we got there. Nope, just one fill did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed.h Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Boiling tap water would not do much for dissolved minerals, except concentrate them. Boiling long enough will concentrate them to the point that some will some out of solution and form scale. But the water left behind will still have a high mineral content. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 hours ago, ed.h said: Boiling tap water would not do much for dissolved minerals, except concentrate them. Boiling long enough will concentrate them to the point that some will some out of solution and form scale. But the water left behind will still have a high mineral content. Ed The presence of magnesium and calcium carbonates in water makes it temporarily hard. In this case, the hardness in water can be removed by boiling the water. When we boil water the soluble salts of Mg(HCO3)2 is converted to Mg(OH)2 which is insoluble and hence gets precipitated and is removed. I pinched that, but it explains why boiling removes temporary hardness, so will stop the magnesium hydroxide forming in teh cooling system. Nothing really to do with altering concentrations (that effect is minute, I doubt any minerals are reaching saturation) If the minerals remain dissolved in the water, they will have zero effect on the cooling system. And will marginally raise the boiling temp of the water (though again a negligible difference) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed.h Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 I'm not sure where that info about carbonates came from, but I would dispute it. First, calcium carbonate wont decompose at boiling temps in neutral solution. Second, magnesium carbonate and hydroxide have roughly the same solubility in water at 100 degC. Can you reveal the source? Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 hours ago, ed.h said: I'm not sure where that info about carbonates came from, but I would dispute it. First, calcium carbonate wont decompose at boiling temps in neutral solution. Second, magnesium carbonate and hydroxide have roughly the same solubility in water at 100 degC. Can you reveal the source? Ed BBC bitesize. It is a revision "Programme" for exams in the UK. I was being lazy, so used it. Thought it an appropriate level for the majority of the readership. But what we are saying is that boiling water removes the temporary hardness, so it won't happen in the cars cooling system. Is this more appropriate? Temporary hardness is due to the presence of calcium hydrogencarbonate Ca(HCO3)2(aq) and magnesium hydrogencarbonate Mg(HCO3)2(aq). Both calcium hydrogencarbonate and magnesium hydrogencarbonate decompose when heated. The original insoluble carbonate is reformed. This happens when water is boiled. The precipitation reactions are as follows: As you can se boiling the water causes the precipitation of solid calcium carbonate or solid magnesium carbonate. This removes the calcium ions or magnesium ions from the water, and so removes the hardness. Therefore, hardness due to hydrogencarbonates is said to be temporary. https://www.lenntech.com/ro/temporary-hardness.htm#ixzz6fuJMK5vU Also https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/temporary-hardness https://www.stwater.co.uk/content/dam/stw/my-water/document/WaterHardness.pdf http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/LabTutorials/Water/FreshWater/hardness.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed.h Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Yes, thanks, your latest quote is much better. The first one was apparently just a case of sloppy writing. It implied that Calcium and Magnesium carbonates are somehow decomposed by boiling water temps. It is the Bicarbonates that are unstable, and decompose to carbonates, which may precipitate if the concentration is high enough. I'm not sure how much it actually softens the water--it certainly depends on initial mineral concentrations, but it surely wont make soft water out of hard water. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 The reason your kettle furs up is that you keep giving it fresh water. Each time the new water has new hardness which builds up as layers of limescale inside your kettle. The water in your cooling system gets filled once. Then, once it's got hot, anything that's going to come out has come out and your cooling system doesn't get any worse. Well, not unless you've got a leak and keep topping it up. If you get a brand new kettle and fill it once with Thames water (hardest in the country I believe) and boil it, does the kettle look horribly furred up? No! Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, rlubikey said: The reason your kettle furs up is that you keep giving it fresh water. Each time the new water has new hardness which builds up as layers of limescale inside your kettle. The water in your cooling system gets filled once. Then, once it's got hot, anything that's going to come out has come out and your cooling system doesn't get any worse. Well, not unless you've got a leak and keep topping it up. If you get a brand new kettle and fill it once with Thames water (hardest in the country I believe) and boil it, does the kettle look horribly furred up? No! Cheers, Richard And that is why I am happy to use tap water direct from said tap. But boiling in a kettle will do no harm and is almost free. And does remove the temporary hardness effectively 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 i remember as a teenager our neighbour was into GPO transport and they found in trials the cost of using distilled or demin water for batteries did nothing to extend battery life so they just used tap water , batteries were none the worse for it , i would guess it was only boiled for tea breaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted December 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: i remember as a teenager our neighbour was into GPO transport and they found in trials the cost of using distilled or demin water for batteries did nothing to extend battery life so they just used tap water , batteries were none the worse for it , i would guess it was only boiled for tea breaks Not much left for the batteries then, I'd guess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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