Anybody using Evans?

[Roger K]

Just thought I'd lob this grenade in and see what happens...

I run all my other classics on Evans waterless (propylene glycol) coolant, and have for at least 15 years now.  I see two advantages - the engine never boils, thus avoiding steam pockets etc., and the most important - no evidence whatsoever of internal corrosion after 15 years without a coolant change.  Downsides are cost (although I find that balances out), problematic topping-up on the road and an increased propensity to find leaks.  However I know coolant systems can differ widely, so just wondered if anyone has experience of running Evans in a Triumph six-pot.

I know this can divide opinions spectacularly, so I don't want to start a fight, just looking for experience!

Roger

[Guest]

Hello Roger,

From your brief, I believe you have covered the points that make folk divided on the situation. I did contemplate Evans momentarily but decided that a good quality BLUE glycol coupled with distilled water proves more than suitable for me; of note I use Granville Sub-Zero Blue in both of my classics.

The point you make about leaks is equally shared with normal anti-freeze; if it has the chance to leak on your garage floor it will take every opportunity to do so if the system is not 100% sound; hence both AF & Evans are the same in that respect. Probably for me, on a personal basis, is the roadside top-up issue should one experience significant coolant loss. 

On draining my coolant when changing for new, approx. every 18mts, the colour is still as good as the day it went in and this I attribute solely to the distilled water without harmful corroding chemicals contained therein and of course a quality AF to start with.

I do not accept that one is better than the other, rather a matter of cost and personal preference.

Hopefully the above gives a balanced input.

Best wishes.

Richard.

 

[Nigel Clark]

I don't use waterless coolant and I'm not tempted. My Triumphs have used 4Life for years without problem, the coolant staying clear and sludge-free. For those not familiar, 4Life is a glycol based ready mixed coolant with extra corrosion inhibitors compared to regular blue glycol antifreeze.  I've renewed it at about 10 years, not because it was necessary but simply because I feel however good the enhanced corrosion inhibitors in 4Life may be, nothing lasts forever.

My Scimitar has 33% Halfords blue silicate/glycol antifreeze diluted with tap water, renewed every 2-3 years. Over 5 years years ownership, it's also been fine without corrosion or sludge build up. It's going to need a new radiator before long, that may prompt me to change to 4Life.

The cost and complexity of switching to waterless mean I'm not tempted. I've also heard a few stories of bad experiences with waterless, one from a Triumph trade expert.

All just my views and experience of course, others will likely disagree.

 

Nigel

[poppyman]

Hi Richard, i'm with you on the anti-freeze side of things, but i have never used distilled water with it in over 50yrs. Is there a reason for it or just preference? I do have a pal who will only use boiled water in his Triumphs.

Tony.

[Colin Lindsay]

Due to a clearout in my Local Tescos I bought a quantity of the Prestone Antifreeze - see link for similar:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prestone-Ready-Antifreeze-Coolant-RMCAF4/dp/B009VXX9IC/ref=asc_df_B009VXX9IC/?tag=bingshoppinga-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=&hvpos=&hvnetw=o&hvrand=&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583451665878136&psc=1

I didn't realise until I bought about 5 litres of the stuff for a tenner that it's already mixed, but seems to be well recommended. It'll be going into a newly rebuilt system so no mixing with existing antifreeze or water. Anyone tried it already?

[RogerH]

Hi Roger,

Water is the best cooling medium - compared to anything with antifreeze in.

The Evans has less cooling power than water.  A mix of normal anti-freeze and water is a better coolant than Evans.

That fact that Evans doesn't boil is meaningless as a normal TRiumh cooling system will not boil under normal conditions.

As for corrosion, the standard blue ant=freeze at 30% or 50% dilution also does not corrode.

Also, and this is important, I understand that the Evans type can be a fire hazard. If you get a leak that produces a fine spray you could have a problem

 

Roger Roger

[Steve P]

I had a bad experience with my 1500 Herald which had waterless coolant in it from day 1 after an expensive rebuild,the head cracked and coolant mixed with oil,rather than mayo,the whole engine had jelly like stuff everywhere and had to be completely taken apart and cleaned before another rebuild.

That was 4 life from the club shop.Yes i know it shouldn`t mix with oil but that`s my experience.

Water and AF for me from now on.

Steve

[Nigel Clark]

6 minutes ago, Steve P said:

I had a bad experience with my 1500 Herald which had waterless coolant in it from day 1 after an expensive rebuild,the head cracked and coolant mixed with oil,rather than mayo,the whole engine had jelly like stuff everywhere and had to be completely taken apart and cleaned before another rebuild.

That was 4 life from the club shop.Yes i know it shouldn`t mix with oil but that`s my experience.

Water and AF for me from now on.

Steve

I'm confused (not unusual). Are you implying that 4Life is waterless, because it isn't?

Nigel

[Roger K]

Thanks chaps, just wondered if anyone had tried it in the Triumph six cylinder setup.

I take on board all your points, and have heard all of them before - many times!  One point about the flammability - yes, it is flammable - and I ran a controlled test to compare it with ethylene glycol.  The short story is that both catch fire equally easily and both will burn for about the same length of time by quantity - the difference is that propylene glycol is not mixed with water, so catches a little more quickly.  Ethylene glycol and water mix takes a little longer to get started, but once going burns just the same.  It took a while to get either going properly.

Evans really came through for me a few years ago in an event in Northern Spain, driving quickly over the Picos Europas in a '65 289 Cobra in an ambient of 40˚C.  Both temp gauges had failed (capillary), but it kept going smoothly over the mountains with no signs of overheating whilst those around me were dropping like flies.  Once water is boiling, it's not doing much for cooling and that particular car has a very marginal cooling system. 

Good to know the Triumph system can cope and doesn't boil.  I know 4Life as well, as I used to run that in my Healey 3000s before I started with the Evans.

[poppyman]

39 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Due to a clearout in my Local Tescos I bought a quantity of the Prestone Antifreeze - see link for similar:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prestone-Ready-Antifreeze-Coolant-RMCAF4/dp/B009VXX9IC/ref=asc_df_B009VXX9IC/?tag=bingshoppinga-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=&hvpos=&hvnetw=o&hvrand=&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583451665878136&psc=1

I didn't realise until I bought about 5 litres of the stuff for a tenner that it's already mixed, but seems to be well recommended. It'll be going into a newly rebuilt system so no mixing with existing antifreeze or water. Anyone tried it already?

I know a lot of people using Prestone Colin and for the same reason as you  It's good stuff  and i made the same mistake with blue a/freeze with the ready mixed (late night on fleabay), luckily i had some full strength blue so mixed the two and had enough for my cars. I did double check after with a tester.

Tony.

[Steve P]

57 minutes ago, Nigel Clark said:

I'm confused (not unusual). Are you implying that 4Life is waterless, because it isn't?

Nigel

 

My mistake,i thought it was,still turned to jelly though.

S

[Guest]

2 hours ago, poppyman said:

Hi Richard, i'm with you on the anti-freeze side of things, but i have never used distilled water with it in over 50yrs. Is there a reason for it or just preference? I do have a pal who will only use boiled water in his Triumphs.

Hello Tony,

Tap water contains a large number of chemical impurities, a lot of these are added by water companies to meet exacting H&S requirements so that water is fit for human consumption. Different water authority areas have different requirements when it comes to additives - the main reason for that, is from where the water source comes from which spins the term "hard & soft" water areas. Elements such as calcium (hard) are naturally occurring; this particular element causes limescale and the like to build up. The usual example is the kitchen kettle or washing machine heating element.

Distilled water, ionised water and boiled water remove the vast majority of harmful chemicals contained therein. What you get is water that is basically 99% chemically inert and as such looses it's aggressive reaction with metals which of course is a major factor with car engines etc. Add to that AF, you get the complete protective package.

Some folk suggest rain water and although that has far less chemicals plus is softer than tap water, it does tend to be slightly acidic - hence that is why it's great for watering the garden rather than using tap water.

Clive, knows his chemistry and I am sure he will be along later to put the finishing touches to the above explanation.

Hope that assists ??

Regards.

Richard.

[Anglefire]

I used AF and distilled water after sorting the head out - mostly because it was cheap enough and was in Tesco's (£1 for a couple of ltrs I think or was it 5ltrs? Can't remember - I know I got 2 containers of it!)

[poppyman]

I thought a chemical reason would be it  Although i have never had problem with tap water apart from topping up batteries and i use the water out of a dehumidifier for those.  I suppose it's personal choice like tyres and oil's. So thanks Richard and Mark for the explanation. I will probably use dehumidified water in future as i have a friend with a damp house.

Tony. 

[Paul H]

1 hour ago, Anglefire said:

I used AF and distilled water after sorting the head out - mostly because it was cheap enough and was in Tesco's (£1 for a couple of ltrs I think or was it 5ltrs? Can't remember - I know I got 2 containers of it!)

Current price for distilled water in Tesco’s is £1.50 for 2.5 litres . 
Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

if you happen to mix a Glycol blue with a pink OAT you will get a solid jelly mixture   

pete

 

[Anglefire]

50 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

if you happen to mix a Glycol blue with a pink OAT you will get a solid jelly mixture   

pete

 

I put the wrong stuff in first time around and had to drain and flush before using the right stuff. Was a bit peved. 😁

[Paul H]

54 minutes ago, Paul H said:

Current price for distilled water in Tesco’s is £1.50 for 2.5 litres . 
Paul 

Don’t ask Tesco’s for Distiiled water as they don’t sell it . However they do sell  De-ionised  water 

 

Paul 

 

[Anglefire]

Yes that's the stuff I used. When I looked wisdom at the time said it was good enough!

[Steve P]

59 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

if you happen to mix a Glycol blue with a pink OAT you will get a solid jelly mixture   

pete

 

I`m embarrassed to say that might  have happened.

S

[ed.h]

I considered Evans for my TR6 and discovered all of the pros and cons above, but I was still on the fence.  The decider for me was the cost, and it wasn't that I couldnt afford it.  Evans appears to be just straight glycols, and there is no earthly reason that it should cost what it does.

I didn't go with Evans because I would have felt ripped off.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Paul H said:

However they do sell  De-ionised  water 

That's exactly what I use, Paul, and worth every penny of £1.50 for 2.5L !!!

Regards.

Richard.

[Clive]

4 hours ago, classiclife said:

 

Clive, knows his chemistry and I am sure he will be along later to put the finishing touches to the above explanation.

Hope that assists ??

Regards.

Richard.

I have forgotton most of the chemistry.

However, boiling tap water will remove one much of the hardness, so using boiled tapwater is probably beneficial. 

Any acidity in the water will be quickly neutralised in a metal engine. So should not be a bother. 

However, I run eurocarparts blue antifreeze at about 30% concentration in my cars, no bother. It works well enough. Maybe I am just a Philistine.

[ahebron]

I used water out of our dehumidifer over a week or so to fill up the Vitesse 6, other wise the water goes down the drain or on the plants
Being fortunate to live in an area that doesnt freeze (mild frosts) I just use an anti corrosive in the water to treat it. Keep it simple.

Adrian

[thescrapman]

Same as Adrian, I just keep the water from the dehumidifier and like Clive mix It with ECP antifreeze.

Do I win prize for most financially astute?