Lucas ACR Alternator Alternatives

[Peaks]

Hi, the ACR alternator on my Vitesse is on its way out. Over the last ten years and across several British classics I've replaced more of these alternators than I can remember, each time before due to the diode packs failing,  but on this occasion its due to a failed bearing. 

I've always sourced my alternators from the local motor factor or ebay, paying around forty or fifty quid for them. But I'm getting fed up with replacing them now as they are obviously built down to a price not up to a standard. 

So I have two questions really:

Is there somewhere I can buy an ACR alternator with good quality components fitted, that'll last more than 10,000 miles? I don't mind paying more, quite a lot more, for something that will be reliable.

Or

Is there an alternative alternator that will fit with minimal modifications? I've read posts on forums which mention Ford and Denso alternators, but the details of the models of these alternators is vague. 

Thanks

[Wagger]

There is room for almost any alternator. With time and patience spacers can be selected to align the pulleys. Modern cars use really powerful ones, so put a 45 amp fuse in series with the thick wire that attaches to it or you will overheat a loom somewhere. I have looked at Bosch and JTX.

They really should not fail unless you are running all loads and have too many extras connected.

[NonMember]

Can't say I've ever had a diode pack fail, may have had a bearing go once (I definitely had a bearing fail on a dynamo but can't remember on ACRs) However, I have a drawer-full of ones with worn out brushes and two failed regulators. The Spitfire is currently running one I refurbished myself.

[PeteH]

This thread has some suggested alternatives, though primarily aimed at the 2000?.

 

 

Pete

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

fitting a fuse between the Alternator and the loom may cause more problems than t fixes.

The alternator can't over load the loom UNLESS you attach too many power hungry accessories. It supplies what is asked of it.

The fuses are quite fickle. If the fuse pops you lose your system.

Why not get the bearing sorted

Powerlite do some nice alternators.

 

Roger 

[Paul H]

3 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Folks,

fitting a fuse between the Alternator and the loom may cause more problems than t fixes.

The alternator can't over load the loom UNLESS you attach too many power hungry accessories. It supplies what is asked of it.

The fuses are quite fickle. If the fuse pops you lose your system.

Why not get the bearing sorted

Powerlite do some nice alternators.

 

Roger 

Hi Roger , could you spec a suitable Powerlite Alternator for a Vitesse 

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

having been involved with manufacturers(use the word loosely)  where exchange units were often reworked and duff diode packs would have their wire snipped 

puts the waning out but reduces the output  

it happens    nice box  but inside is debatable  nice clean junk 

Pete

 

[Clive]

3 hours ago, Peaks said:

Hi, the ACR alternator on my Vitesse is on its way out. Over the last ten years and across several British classics I've replaced more of these alternators than I can remember, each time before due to the diode packs failing,  but on this occasion its due to a failed bearing. 

I've always sourced my alternators from the local motor factor or ebay, paying around forty or fifty quid for them. But I'm getting fed up with replacing them now as they are obviously built down to a price not up to a standard. 

So I have two questions really:

Is there somewhere I can buy an ACR alternator with good quality components fitted, that'll last more than 10,000 miles? I don't mind paying more, quite a lot more, for something that will be reliable.

Or

Is there an alternative alternator that will fit with minimal modifications? I've read posts on forums which mention Ford and Denso alternators, bit the details of the models of these alternators is vague. 

Thanks

I too had enough of lucas recon stuff, and have fitted Denso 40A alternators that are faultless after many many thousands of miles. They are OEM so should last 100K plus.

This is the type I have, but beware copies, they are probably as bad as the recon or cheap copy ACR stuff.

Pretty simple, will need a different belt length and a bit of fettling to fit.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224837903877?hash=item3459622605:g:eo0AAOSwQuFgSPbk

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 A127 alternator is good.

[rogerguzzi]

13 hours ago, clive said:

I too had enough of lucas recon stuff, and have fitted Denso 40A alternators that are faultless after many many thousands of miles. They are OEM so should last 100K plus.

This is the type I have, but beware copies, they are probably as bad as the recon or cheap copy ACR stuff.

Pretty simple, will need a different belt length and a bit of fettling to fit.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224837903877?hash=item3459622605:g:eo0AAOSwQuFgSPbk

Hello 

          I have one of them on my spitfire and vitesse 

I have covered 20,000+miles no problem and you can get at No1 plug easy as a bonus

Roger

[Wagger]

16 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Folks,

fitting a fuse between the Alternator and the loom may cause more problems than t fixes.

The alternator can't over load the loom UNLESS you attach too many power hungry accessories. It supplies what is asked of it.

The fuses are quite fickle. If the fuse pops you lose your system.

Why not get the bearing sorted

Powerlite do some nice alternators.

 

Roger 

I agree, but, if a short occurs, due to old wiring chafing or something going low resistance, the could get fried. Fuses are fitted to protect wiring. Something overlooked by those that fit 13A fuses in mains plug-tops, regardless of the wire size. I see this every week or so when somebody brings me an appliance or table lamp to fix.  They just see a physical fitment and disregard the lable on the lead, if they have not already removed that! Then they wonder why I fit nice thick leads to cope with their lack of knowledge.

You can install fuse failure lamps, but that requires a bit more electrical expertise. Circuit breakers too!

[Iain T]

I fitted a Brise (Denso type) alternator after two new Lucas units failed. Not cheap but came with its own spec results. Yes I did have to play around with belts, make a new strap and spacers to align the pulley. This may just have been because my strap and spacers were not correct to start with! 

Iain 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

             This is mine on the work in progress(slowy) Vitesse

Roger

[Iain T]

27 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

 This is mine on the work in progress(slowy) Vitesse

Roger, are you building a race car or just enjoy extreme twiddlin'? 

Iain 

[rogerguzzi]

7 hours ago, Iain T said:

Roger, are you building a race car or just enjoy extreme twiddlin'? 

Iain 

Hello Ian

              Just the opposite I bought the Vitesse off a late friends widow with loads of spares

He had been using it for sprinting so I have changed the 4.1 LSD diff for a 3.65 and rebuilt and refitted the overdrive gearbox.(longer legs)

I have removed the rear anti camber kit and fitted a swing spring.

I have removed the Special head (huge valves bronze guides) and change carbs back to 150's from 175's and fitted a reworked standard head and 7/16" studs

The cam is a Chris Witor one with extra lift on both valves not just inlet.

But leaving the bottom end fully balanced and the special clutch.

But keeping the Megajolt(accounts for coil pack) and the pipe feeds oil to the front main bearing 

I hope to make it still a quick car but can be used for touring (which is what we like doing Spain again this year all being well?)

Sold all the bits I have taken off(I paid to much for the car but was not going to haggle with a widow) but selling the parts has bought it down to normal ish price

Roger

[Iain T]

Should be a useable reliable engine! 

Good luck

[rogerguzzi]

Hello Ian 

                   It was making 123BHP in sprint form but probably back down to 100+ now but good for touring

Roger

ps when we struggle to get in Spitty!

[dougbgt6]

Am I reading this right, people are replacing alternators because diode packs fail?   I'm all for chucking things away and buying a new one when repair is difficult, time consuming and may not work. But replacing brushes and diode packs are very simple jobs.  Bearings a little more difficult, but doable, I have a set in my drawer just in case.  

Doug

[Clive]

42 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Am I reading this right, people are replacing alternators because diode packs fail?   I'm all for chucking things away and buying a new one when repair is difficult, time consuming and may not work. But replacing brushes and diode packs are very simple jobs.  Bearings a little more difficult, but doable, I have a set in my drawer just in case.  

Doug

But the replacements are equally "variable" in quality. Trust me, halfway up Stelvio, or up in the Scottish Highlands 600 miles from home? You won't be carrying a spare diode pack and certainly not the means to swap it by the side of the road. Best hope is somebody you are with is carrying a spare alternator, or willing to swap batteries every couple of hours (yes, RBRR has been completed like that more than once)

Roger does real mileage in his car, and knows the issues, and engineers his cars to be reliable. And yes, that means dumping crappy parts as experience teaches us that there are much better options.

But why not just fit an alternator that will just work reliably? Nobody in a modern car ever considers their alternator will fail, because it is very rare. My dads one failed, but that was after hus battery failed and he got a jump start, I believe that caused the alternator failure.  But I have not had one fail (apart from crappy ACR type things, never lasted more than 18 months, some much less) in 38 years of driving. hence I fit Denso, but would happily use Bosch etc etc, but NOTHING that has been through the hands of a reconditioner.

[Iain T]

1 hour ago, clive said:

Nobody in a modern car ever considers their alternator will fail, because it is very rare

I agree! In 50 years of driving the only alternator, or dynamo, I've ever had to replace is in the Vitesse. Both were new ACR type from Triumph dealers. The first failed in a few months the second was faulty from new! Take a chance and buy the c**p ACR cheapo's or buy quality and move on to something else to worry about. 

Iain 

[dougbgt6]

57 minutes ago, clive said:

Trust me, halfway up Stelvio, or up in the Scottish Highlands 600 miles from home? You won't be carrying a spare diode pack and certainly not the means to swap it by the side of the road.

I do currently have a diode pack in the car, admittedly not intentionally,   but I  carry tools one of which is a gas soldering iron. Also  I'm never far in the Scottish highlands from anyone of 2 dozen relatives.

1 hour ago, clive said:

But why not just fit an alternator that will just work reliably?

Mine does work reliably! It's the original and has done nearly 80k miles. The only alternator failure I've had was due to an "assistant" reverse connecting the battery and the diode pack went phut! I replaced the pack and because I had it apart the brushes. I checked the bearings, decided they were OK, but bought some spares just in case. 

 

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

8 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Mine does work reliably!

I've never had one fail; okay so my Triumphs have been relatively low mileage, max 3000 miles per year at most, but the GT6 was converted in the early 2000s and the Lucas lasted over 20 years and still going. It was an uprated (55?) version from Canleys.

I have a nice little Delco model I want to keep for the Herald 1200, but the others are getting S/H versions from larger Triumphs that have been lying about for years, all original and getting no more than a spruce up. Some of them still have the £1 price tag visible...

[Peter Truman]

I have an then new Aus made Lucas 15ACR in the Spit 20yrs old when I converted it, English Lucas 15ACR in the Vitesse converted in 74 still working, the 76 Sprint is the original Lucas but a new diode pack 5 years ago.

I do have a couple of spares JUST in case  new Bosch/Lucas and a relatively new Prestolite A127 that I had to put a new regulator pack in.

It could be I’ve just been lucky as fellow club members over the years have had several replacements due to Lucas failures but they have stuck with reco Lucas units

[Clive]

48 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

I do currently have a diode pack in the car, admittedly not intentionally,   but I  carry tools one of which is a gas soldering iron. Also  I'm never far in the Scottish highlands from anyone of 2 dozen relatives.

Mine does work reliably! It's the original and has done nearly 80k miles. The only alternator failure I've had was due to an "assistant" reverse connecting the battery and the diode pack went phut! I replaced the pack and because I had it apart the brushes. I checked the bearings, decided they were OK, but bought some spares just in case. 

 

Doug

But do you have car-fixing relatives dotted around the continenant?

I don't usually carry a spare alternator, although I usually make sure somebody in "my group" does on longer ventures. Sometimes it is me.

But looking at the RBRR failures (that is a great way to see what things tend to go wrong with 200,000 triumph miles being covered in 48hrs) and right at the top is alternators. (fuel pumps and water pumps are other compenents that commonly fail)

Of course, some people are lucky, and maybe I have been unlucky in the past. who knows? But I will stick to my Denso. As do many others who have been unlucky with Lucas tat.

[dougbgt6]

1 minute ago, clive said:

But do you have car-fixing relatives dotted around the continant?

The CONTINENT?!!!!!! 

(said in the voice of Lady Bracknell)

db