Electric Vitesse?

[DVD3500]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Don't you think that horse owners, or steam traction engine owners, might have said that a few decades ago?

I also seem to remember a few years back people complaining that their record collection was now obsolete, or they'd never get film for cameras any more. 

I've seen people who are unsympathetic to a lot of my lifestyle; maybe I'll go out and sit in the middle of the road and block EVs. Why not?

We really should meet in a pub some day.  I would never ever condemn you for your lifestyle.

Dressing style... well that remains until we meet!

I have said on another forum: I am not against ICE classic cars or even ICE cars in general. There are use cases that they are required as there are no alternatives.

I take issue with legislation that makes driving and running a classic car a problem or nigh on impossible.  I am gearing up to jump in with both feet once the German parliament allows dual citizenship so I can feet the Greens on their attempt to make it more difficult to have a tax exempt car or lift bans in congestion zones.

If I had the time and money I would travel the world and meet every single owner here and check out their car.

Why?

Because their cars make them happy and I really like seeing happy people.

I am that guy that is giddier about someone enjoying their present more than receiving presents.

Higher Powers know, I have relatives on both sides of the Ukraine war. One third of my department is based in Israel and many have children on the front and ALL of them know someone who has been killed or kidnapped.

I only take issue with misinformation, or misrepresentation of information. The link you provided is more or less the same source I found. It isn't two plants a day it is more like 2 a week. Still not great but it is also only permission and not a commitment to build. So I agree with that the Chinese are a real problem in this case. My stance is just slightly more nuanced.

If I ever make it Scarva I will let you know!

Feel free to throw rotten cabbages or accept my offer of a (n Imperial) pint of your choice. 🙂

My wife is German though so she may actually want the cabbage... 😄

 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

4 hours ago, DVD3500 said:

We really should meet in a pub some day.  I would never ever condemn you for your lifestyle.

 

I would love to. I miss a good round-table banter and while this forum is good, you can't convey all the feelings / meaning / nuances of a discussion. It also doesn't convey how laid-back I am - been there, done most of it, what does it matter in the long run? -  so while I'll make a few statements or points generally I don't give a toss as long as there's coffee in the world, especially in this little corner where the rest of the world goes by and I'll play my strange music*, work on my old and odd cars and let the rest of the world go by to do as it will. (My village is currently full of Israeli flags and the next one along is covered in Palestinian, and none of them have ever met either party but will fight over it) It's a strange world.

Your kind offer is readily accepted, to be redeemed if and when the situation ever arises. 

*I think I've hit rock bottom with Danish. I though Norwegian was horrifyingly interesting, but this...

 

[68vitesse]

5 hours ago, DVD3500 said:

That's the same logic the gun lobbies use in the US to justify the ease with which people can obtain a device that has very little uses except for maiming and killing.

At least a car has more uses than that...

As you didn't mention them am l to assume you don't think children, pets, holidays etc. have a use.

As to guns most civilised countries have very strict laws about their sale.

Regards

Paul

[Wagger]

I have posted elsewhere the fact that, in order to generate enough power to supply 100% electric vehicles, it will require at least three times as much power into the grid than we currently produce. It is way too tall an order. Some lateral thinking is required here.

We must not grow fuel instead of food, or use water to produce hydrogen. There will not be enough food or water to support life.

Our waste produces gas, so use that. Plus use the tides. They are always present. We waste and chuck away far too much.

[thescrapman]

On 17/08/2023 at 09:51, Sparky_Spit said:

Am I right in thinking that a 40 year old plus "Vehicle of Historic Interest" loses that status once a conversion such as above has been carried out?

I remember reading something a while ago about a very nice Mk1 Mini that had been converted and through a series of curcumstances to do with age and Type Approval (I think) it became almost worthless as it could no longer legally be registered for the road with its original number plate , due to the fact that it's motive power was not in period, and the modifications to the subframes were considered as "not in period" and it therefore had to have a Q plate issued under the Totting Up process?

How do companies that do the conversions get around that?

Changing an ICE will never cause too many issues, radical modifications to a monocoque perhaps may.

changing to an EV drivetrain, well you may be trying to evade duty, and that always upsets HMRC, and local councils.

To get a vehicle correctly registered to avoid RFD, ULEZ and Congestion charge zones etc, you have to get it updated.

And that is where people are coming unstuck.

I was hearing Of a Stag that had been converted to EV, and DVLA were questioning the drain holes in the original engine cross member as the one in the car looked different to the new ones you can buy now, therefore it was assumed it had been modified as part of the EV conversion. Unless it can be proven the crossmember was not a subframe and was an original one, then-the car can never go back on the road. I believe the motor was mounted to the original engine mount locations to ensure no changes were made.

They are totally intolerant of any change to the vehicle at all now, not like a few years ago. A single hole drilled in the wrong place can and will write-off the conversion.

[Colin Lindsay]

I'm reminded of two things here: in the 1970s I was in Birmingham and went to the Transport Museum where they had a huge steam train which, if we waited a bit, we would see it move. A lot of bells whistles and fanfares then it slid across the floor on electric trollies while a soundtrack played 'steamtrain' noises.

A few years back we had an airshow where there was to be a dogfight between a Spitfire and a Messerschmidt. The planes duly appeared with little raspy engines as they were replicas, and there were a lot of complaints.

I like Classic cars, the whole experience - the work on ICE engines, the smells, the sounds, the complete package. My feeling - and it's MY feeling - is that an EV Triumph is a mockup, a Triumph-shaped electric thingie, like a modern replica E-type Jag. I have no issues with people doing it, but it's no longer the same and to me not, in any way, better than the original. It may be, as some claim, 'the future' but then that flies in the face of a hobby which celebrates the past. Additionally: if, as some are doing, they are trying to get the best of both worlds, the benefit of an EV with the benefits of historic status, then it's not surprising when they run into red tape.

[PeteH]

3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

then it's not surprising when they run into red tape.

There are virtually no aspects of “life” where this commodity does not exist. It is the very reason for the existence of that other commodity The Public Servant. From our over managed health service to the dizzy heights of national governance. Indeed it is the very essence of the existence in many quarters. It feeds on a diet of taxation in all forms to be dispersed according to arcane rules fixed by an equally inept management system called a Parliament. Or in some cases just a single operative. I am surprisingly happy at the thought that at my age I do no longer have to care enough to worry about it. I saw a tee shirt a while back. On which was emblazoned Take care what you say, at my age, life in prison holds very little deterrent, or words to that effect. 3 full squares a day, and priority medical care might just suit?. Access to t-v, library maybe a gym. There are folk in some care homes paying thousands a week for similar?😂
 

Pete

Edited October 15, 2023 by PeteH

[ahebron]

Update

[Steve P]

Sacrilege.

S

[ahebron]

10 hours ago, Steve P said:

Sacrilege.

S

Why?

[68vitesse]

No worse than some off the other things done and calling them an "upgrade".

Regards

Paul

[PeteH]

Unsure where I stand on this. It does at first sight appear to be “sacrilegious”  but then is putting a later or upgraded ic engine in just as bad?

gearbox conversions? Lighting upgrades. Even back in the day we did performance mods?. My personal take would be along the lines of needing to hear an ic engine. And not to feel as if I was driving. Milk float. For me that would be the deciding factor. It would look “right” but never feel right
 

Pete

[Paul H]

100 mile range and £20k - not for me 

Paul 

[dougbgt6]

Just talking about the sound of the engine on another thread. A throbbing Triumph 2 litre straight 6 vs an electric whizzy whirrer.  Let me think?

Doug

[trigolf]

Well, it might have as much charisma as a toaster, but at least it's not another hugely bloated chelsea tractor...🤔

[Chris A]

2 hours ago, trigolf said:

as much charisma as a toaster

Do you mind! Toasters serve a very useful and fulfilling roll in life 🧇

[JohnD]

Really?  Not Talkie Toaster:

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=583956873&sxsrf=AM9HkKlJk9TJm80Mao2KULbfRp9Eaeszlg:1700481524325&q=talkie+toaster&tbm=vid&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDgtGpw9KCAxVVUkEAHXRrBFcQ0pQJegQICRAB&biw=360&bih=649&dpr=3#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:869c5cd6,vid:LRq_SAuQDec,st:0

Edited November 20, 2023 by JohnD

[PeteH]

Talking Milk Floats, which we were`nt. I saw a Tesla parked yesterday. The screen on the dash, looked larger than that my Laptop, which I use as my Main computer these days!. Just how much "information" do Milk FLoat Drivers need. And more to the point IMV, it takes concentration away from the job of actually driving in a safe manner.

Pete

[GrahamB]

5 hours ago, PeteH said:

Talking Milk Floats, which we were`nt.

I used to drive a milk float as my father owned a dairy business.  No speedometer as it could not exceed 30 mph. I once sheared a drive shaft by switching into reverse whilst still going forward. Back in the 1960s you could pass a driving test in a milk float and get a full car licence.  However, I passed my test in a grey 948 Herald.

[DVD3500]

Most responses don't surprise me here...

I guess growing up in the US with V8s near a super speedway I am a little over the whole engine noise thing.

Noise is really wasted energy at the end of the day.

The Spitfire driver down the road actually says one of his main motivations was he wanted to hear more of the outside world when driving scenic routes....  so maybe that has its value as well...?

As far as how it drives:

I know a half dozen converted cars and all the drivers have the same problem: They drive their cars 10 times more than before!

All the drivers owned the car before the conversion. Some of them are second owners. They know what it was like before and all of them prefer the electric motor.

Oh some of them have a second problem: Everyone else wants to drive their cars... 🙂

Range and cost are still a problem but batteries are going into production that will have about 5-6 times more energy for the same weight. It will be a while before they trickle down to enthusiasts... costs are coming down. Lithium has dropped 60% and nickel and other metals between 20-40%. Costs will come down.

Personally I don't know if I would do it to a rare car like a MKII Vitesse but then again the straight six that was in it was more or less the same as the GT6 and Triumph 2000.

Like they also said: Totally reversible ... which after reading all the rules is the case for most conversions. If you cut/drill the chassis or a structural part you lose your road-worthiness.

There was a Porsche 968 for sale here. The guy only wanted 5000€. Why? Engine and likely gearbox totaled. Actually perfect for a conversion. Interior was OK and electrics seemed to work. I passed.

Why?

Because the 968 is rare and the last of the transaxles...

The car is gone but I have not seen it on the road yet. Makes me wonder what is better... dying in a garage, crushed or getting a heart transplant...?

Because at the end of the day: Whether or not souls exist is a matter of philosophy. Better creature has a heart and that heart beats with electric impulses...

Be seeing you...

 

[PeteH]

7 hours ago, GrahamB said:

I used to drive a milk float as my father owned a dairy business.  No speedometer as it could not exceed 30 mph. I once sheared a drive shaft by switching into reverse whilst still going forward. Back in the 1960s you could pass a driving test in a milk float and get a full car licence.  However, I passed my test in a grey 948 Herald.

Strange as it may seem, But when I worked for a short period in the Hawker Factory at Brough, Yorks. We had a "MIlk Float" type vehicle whose main tasking was carrying aircraft parts between the various parts of the factory. It had a deformed Chassis, the result allegedly, of someone thinking it could take the weight of a Bristol Centaurus Engine out of a Beverley Freighter!!. When it had problems, "who do you call"? Maintenance, ie; US. The battery relays gave us endless "joy". Well the site "lecky`s" actually, but we did get involved and ocasionally "borowed" it to carry tools and Machine Parts.

I think the Herald I took my test in was white?, curtesy of BSM. Wet, greasy/Icy/sleeting February, elderly cyclist fell off in front of me, the "impromptu" Emergency Stop, near had the examiner through the windshield, despite which I passed!.

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

3 hours ago, DVD3500 said:

I know a half dozen converted cars and all the drivers have the same problem: They drive their cars 10 times more than before!

All the drivers owned the car before the conversion. Some of them are second owners. They know what it was like before and all of them prefer the electric motor

It could be chicken and egg scenario: they preferred the electric motor in the first place and therefore converted their cars. Now that they've got it, they'll drive the car if only to justify the expense. For others like myself that have no interest in that kind of engine, it's going to be harder to convince me to make a Triumph-shaped shell that runs on electric, a sort of full-size fairground ride. I have no problem with others doing it, but it's becoming harder to explain to the EV-converted about exactly what I like about ICE cars that doesn't get adverse comments about leaks, noise and fumes.

[68vitesse]

12 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

but it's becoming harder to explain to the EV-converted about exactly what I like about ICE cars that doesn't get adverse comments about leaks, noise and fumes.

That's because you're wrong, no discussion no debate, I'm right you're wrong, are you to thick to understand that.

Today's mentality.

Couldn't find an emoji for exasperation.

Regards

Paul

[DVD3500]

I abhor anyone who takes a totally binary view of anything, which given the essential two-party "democracies" around the world make me a bit grumpy when it comes to comes to politics....

There are people that love steam engines.

People who love 2-cycle engines.

And of course people who love all other manner of transport.

Personally I pride myself on being able to smell an over-rich mixture but that is a dying skill...

No one has the right to tell you you are wrong for loving your car the way it is no more than anyone can really fault you for how tall you are or how big your feet are.

But to your point Colin I know these drivers well and they are not EV freaks in any way. In fact one of them is an accountant who has very little interest in technology and engineering as a whole.

In almost all cases the engine was acting up so often that they had reached the point of spending more time and money mending than driving and for them the electric motor fixed that.

They still fettle... the suspension and drivetrain need attention. You have to keep your car clean of course. All the work still applies except the motor bits.

one of them is in fact an electrical engineer and he does whip out the laptop and play with some parameters from time to time.

For those of us who grew up on computer games we do like a bit of hacking.

So who all is for a bit of Morris Dancing? 😄

[Dick Twitchen]

56 minutes ago, DVD3500 said:

So who all is for a bit of Morris Dancing?

One of the shanty singers down the sailing tonight, does that count?