How to open an electrically operated bonnet if battery is dead

[Iain T]

Good samaritan day yesterday. Coming back from Vitesse tinkering a neighbour said the battery in his Boxster was dead could I have a look. It was indeed dead and the battery is in the bonnet but the release is electrically operated! A quick Google said the fuse box has a pull out terminal to connect to but you need another battery. I said I would take the one out of the Vitesse. So connected and car alarm going crazy the switch still didn't work. Another Google and there is a get out of jail wire loop to pull and manually release. Only problem is you have to take the front wheel off and liner and reach up by the bumper. I did it and after a lot of peeing about released it. Would have been a lot easier if it was a cable operated release! German engineering.... 

He hadn't used the car since August last year so no wonder the battery was dead! 

[Graham C]

Called progress 😄

[Clive]

I reckon a lot of this electrically operated stuff from bonnets to electric handbrakes are all about "packaging" issues with cable (as in operating cable, not electrical) runs. 

Of course, electric handbrakes are a nonsense, not a fan of electric tailgates etc too. But then again I am a bit of a dinosaur. 

[mark powell]

SWMBO would love an electric tailgate. She has arthritic shoulders. I have already installed a linear activator to the upper side door on the horsebox, but draw the line at converting the Renault Scenic!

[Ian Faulds]

All this technology is because they can market and sell the car for more money, also we are not supposed to be able to fix it and the dealers expect to make even more money on servicing and repairs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NonMember]

45 minutes ago, clive said:

I reckon a lot of this electrically operated stuff from bonnets to electric handbrakes are all about "packaging" issues with cable

It's not so much packaging as NVH. Bowden cables require extra holes and are very good at transmitting noise. The loom is already there, so adding an extra message on the CAN bus has no NVH implications.

[Iain T]

12 minutes ago, NonMember said:

It's not so much packaging as NVH. Bowden cables require extra holes and are very good at transmitting noise. The loom is already there, so adding an extra message on the CAN bus has no NVH implications

I think using electric bonnet release was a marketing and packaging decision. Its a Porsche so must be high tech and bowden cables are more difficult to package and in terms of production fitting time more expensive. Having said that my bmw has cable operated manual release. The OEMs make choices that are sometimes difficult to justify. 

Iain 

[Paulfc]

2 hours ago, mark powell said:

SWMBO would love an electric tailgate. She has arthritic shoulders. I have already installed a linear activator to the upper side door on the horsebox, but draw the line at converting the Renault Scenic!

Mark,

If SWMBO is happy travelling in the horsebox surely you’ve solved the problem?
 

Paul

[Mjit]

Electric operation of things like handbakes and bonnet/boot releases are down to assemply costs.

It's really cheap and easy to add an extra wire into the loom and easy to add an electronic actuator onto a sub-assembly, then on the line it just takes seconds to plugging in a connector.  The alternative is a cable that has to be routed by hand, often through multiple sub-assemblies, then adjusted, all of which is at least a 30 second job, which basically means an extra guy on the line, which costs a lot more than the actuators.

[Chris A]

49 minutes ago, Mjit said:

It's really cheap and easy to add an extra wire into the loom and easy to add an electronic actuator onto a sub-assembly, then on the line it just takes seconds to plugging in a connector.  The alternative is a cable that has to be routed by hand, often through multiple sub-assemblies, then adjusted, all of which is at least a 30 second job, which basically means an extra guy on the line, which costs a lot more than the actuators.

My car's system is better than either of those, on each front wing just after the wheel arch is a lever. No electrics no cable, you don't even need to get into the car to operate them. I wonder if the concept will catch on . .😉

[68vitesse]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

My car's system is better than either of those, on each front wing just after the wheel arch is a lever. No electrics no cable, you don't even need to get into the car to operate them. I wonder if the concept will catch on . .😉

It won't, to user friendly.

Regards

Paul

 

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, 68vitesse said:

It won't, to user friendly.

Regards

Paul

 

Time will tell, early days yet.

N.B. My time scale is based on the fact that 'urgent' or 'straight away' aren't in my repertoire & a calendar is used more than the second hand of a watch for timing events. I've been in Normandie so long 😁

[Bfg]

From my years in the car industry I suspect that aside from production costs and assembly times - there is the showroom factor.. press a button and something is automatic .. And that is something the lesser brands do not have.   

Another factor is longevity. Car's used to be built with a one year guarantee and a user life of 5 to 10 years. Engines 100,000 to 125,000 miles before work was necessary ..figures in part dependant on the quality of the brand.  Now cars are sensibly rust proofed with mechanicals that will last 2-500,000 miles. So the manufacturers are facing a very real dilemma, of how to sell new cars in sufficient quantity or profit to satisfy their ever fatter shareholders   Electric vehicles are very nice but they're a red herring for most of us, for the time being.  

Capitalism only works as long as there is a sustainable, and preferably - an ever-growing market.  When a population doesn't grow, is facing economic issues, or when it doesn't need new because the second hand market is already flooded - then mainly its fashion and spec marketing which sustain new sales.  BUT if a car has built-in obsolescence, ie., is so much a pain in the asp to work on, is specialist complex & needing electronic diagnostics - then the vehicle becomes too expensive to repair ..and it's discarded in favour of a new and reliable replacement.   

How many here maintain and fix their modern car ?  Most of us do not have the specialist knowledge, the tools and/or diagnostic equipment to do so.   Nor can we be arsed to work on something which is an appliance rather than something of interest. 

In short - the more gizmos to go wrong, the more effective the built-in obsolescence, because we'll put up with half a dozen little things not working &/or being annoying - but when there's twenty or thirty - we suspect the worse (reliability !! ) and want to replace it.

Pete

[PeteH]

10 hours ago, Bfg said:

From my years in the car industry I suspect that aside from production costs and assembly times - there is the showroom factor.. press a button and something is automatic .. And that is something the lesser brands do not have.   

Another factor is longevity. Car's used to be built with a one year guarantee and a user life of 5 to 10 years. Engines 100,000 to 125,000 miles before work was necessary ..figures in part dependant on the quality of the brand.  Now cars are sensibly rust proofed with mechanicals that will last 2-500,000 miles. So the manufacturers are facing a very real dilemma, of how to sell new cars in sufficient quantity or profit to satisfy their ever fatter shareholders   Electric vehicles are very nice but they're a red herring for most of us, for the time being.  

Capitalism only works as long as there is a sustainable, and preferably - an ever-growing market.  When a population doesn't grow, is facing economic issues, or when it doesn't need new because the second hand market is already flooded - then mainly its fashion and spec marketing which sustain new sales.  BUT if a car has built-in obsolescence, ie., is so much a pain in the asp to work on, is specialist complex & needing electronic diagnostics - then the vehicle becomes too expensive to repair ..and it's discarded in favour of a new and reliable replacement.   

How many here maintain and fix their modern car ?  Most of us do not have the specialist knowledge, the tools and/or diagnostic equipment to do so.   Nor can we be arsed to work on something which is an appliance rather than something of interest. 

In short - the more gizmos to go wrong, the more effective the built-in obsolescence, because we'll put up with half a dozen little things not working &/or being annoying - but when there's twenty or thirty - we suspect the worse (reliability !! ) and want to replace it.

Pete

A somewhat cynical, but never the less IMHO, accurate snapshot of modern corporate thinking. Most corporations, have shareholders, share holders "want" more profit this year and next, and so on infinitum. The job of supplying this "want" is the reason for the plethora of "Bean Counters" effectively running virtually ALL entities, public and private. Their God/mantra being "bottom line". Where if we made 3% last, we need 3+% next. how do we do it?, turnover, by "engineering" redundancy into the product, it will get replaced and the profit will be enhanced.

Pete

[dannyb]

My old xtype jag had an electronic boot release, and if it failed they recommend to smash rear light, put arm through and pull lever to lower rear seat. Then crawl into boot and undo lock.

Lucky it never failed.

Danny

[Peter Truman]

We had one 18 years & it always worried me I believe later models had a cable back up.

our model  a 3lt had everything except fold down rear seats! Never thought about their advantages when I brought it for the wife!

[Mjit]

22 hours ago, Chris A said:

My car's system is better than either of those, on each front wing just after the wheel arch is a lever. No electrics no cable, you don't even need to get into the car to operate them. I wonder if the concept will catch on . .😉

"No electrics no cable"...just loads of faffing to get the bonnet cones and body catch bracket correctly adjusted so the bonnet sits right/the catches work.  Must have been a royal PITA on the Triumh assembly line!

[PeteH]

10 minutes ago, Mjit said:

Must have been a royal PITA on the Triumh assembly line!

The "Trick", fit it, set them to a (rough) standard, and then let the Dealer sort it on PDI?.

Pete

[Mjit]

5 hours ago, PeteH said:

The "Trick", fit it, set them to a (rough) standard, and then let the Dealer sort it on PDI?.

Pete

Reaction #1 - Haha, amusing reply.

Reaction #2 - Actually I wouldn't be suprised if that was what the DID do!

[Unkel Kunkel]

My “better half” had a Ford Cmax 2007 with a key entry bonnet release operated by a short cable - which failed.

How to open the bonnet,now ?

Looking on line, there  were various options.

There was a quick way-  but that involved cutting  a hole in the bonnet with an angle grinder..

Instead, I struggled with variations of all the slower, but less destructive approaches.

I did it - but It took around  four hours.

[ahebron]

On my deceased Mk1 PI Estate I dropped a wire down by the bell housing incase the cable broke.
I have no idea why I did that as I never needed to use it.

My old L322 Range Rover had an interesting way to get in if you locked your keys in it, 30 seconds work at the most.
And no I wont put it on a forum.
Mind you with the doors deadlocking there was no way of using the doors once you made it in if you didnt lock the keys in it.
I have heard of certain circuits on cars that are accessible from the outside that you can back feed the battery to charge it.

[PeteH]

2018. We took delivery of a new (To Us) Motorhome. drove it home parked up on the driveway, As you do, went in the house to use the loo. Mrs was already in the house. Came back out to check all OK ? Cannot get in the doors are locked, key still in the "ignition", ask`s herself for the spare set, given to us by the dearship, a couple of hours earlier, er? yes it`s in my handbag----------in the Motorhome. 2 hrs later the RAC guy used an air wedge to force a window and gain access to reach the Keys. Lesson learned, Sprinters, Autolock if left more than 5min`s, after switching off the Engine. Unless you double "unlock". Cost a new locking system for the window, on the first day of ownership!. I now have a key Hidden, which I can in similar circumstances use to get in the habitation door. The Battery BTW, is under the floor mat under a steel cover, 4 screws, in the passenger footwell. Boost Start, uses a dedicated connection under the Bonnet.

Pete

[Wagger]

If there is an internal 'Lock' switch for security, find the wires and connect a small push-button in parallel with it. Remove a floor bung and place the switch so that you can poke it with a finger. So long as 'Only you' knows where it is it will save aggro.

I posted this elsewhere after a dog locked me out of my car.